I didn’t earn the freedoms I have, no. Some of my direct forebears did so I do have some perspective if not necessarily even close to what is going on in that country right now. I have no idea of your circumstance, upbringing or history so I am not going to impugn it but I’m doubtful you will have had experience of being a mixed race child courtesy of a mixed race relationship in Apartheid South Africa.
The Afghans had every opportunity to take the security of their own country in their hands. They have become renowned as suberb natural warriors and billions was poured in to equip, modernise and train their forces. You can’t buy morale and will to fight, however.
This is an incredible thread of how events led to Taliban takeover so quickly, by former Central bank Governor of Afghanistan.
Also, there are reports of Taliban doingg house to house searches of journalists, NGOs, lawyers, civil rights activists, interpretors who worked with international personnel. I hope they stay safe.
Tbh, I bet it would be hard to fire on your own, if you like. I reckon the Afghan army would have put up a whole lot more resistance if it was someone invading.
This one stings quite a bit for me for many personal reasons that I don’t need to get into here…And as such I have felt the need to stay away from this one for a little bit, but @Magnus and I exchanged a couple messages and I want to write about why I believe the next 20 years are going to look quite grim when looking at the course of that region.
Despite all of the errors of my country during the last 20 years in the region, our exit is ultimately going to do more harm than good. Iran and Turkey will likely increase their influences in the region, while destabilizing competitors through the acts of “rogue” forces. US footprints in Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc etc will have to suffice as efforts to monitor and ensure another 9/11 isn’t on the horizon. No chance. China’s influence will grow.
9/11 was such a seismic world event and I understand completely the desire to ensure it isn’t repeated. At the same time, intervention in Afghanistan has led to 17 x the number of civilian deaths alone as 9/11.
Whilst I obviously hope there’s never another 9/11, I equally hope that there’s never another Afghanistan.
It is not at all the entire truth what they are saying in Washington now but I am not surprised that they are spinning and weaving desperate media tale since this is after all a political disaster. Afghan commandos have been fighting without rotation against the Taliban for ages. As have actually significant portions of their army. In the last days of the mass surrender, sure, they collapsed like air. But they have fought hard and killed a lot of Taliban the last few years and extremely heavy combat have taken place the last few months and years. You may not hear much about it since NATO forces have been specifically not targeted by the Taliban after Trump fucked over the Afghans, but the war took a much bloodier turn then. But yes, in the end, after several deals struck between the Taliban and tribal elders (after mass liquidations), they collased. They had no hope after all. As Joscelyn and other have noted, they had already been fucked truly hard and thoroughly over by the US.
But don’t trust me, but take a look at Joscelyn’s thread and compare this with the sweet, sweet words of pink cloudy air now coming from Jen Psaki. Your are a cynical man, so take a comparison.
I also hope there’s not another Afghanistan, but the actions of few always seem to impact the lives of many. If Afghanistan reverts back to its ways of harboring terrorists, again the lives of many will be impacted by the actions of a few.
I know you are an incredibly intelligent human (@Kopstar, well I hope you’re human) and I respect your opinion and voice in this forum. So I just want to make sure you do not think I’m solely advocating for a solution that only benefits my nation vs the lives of others in another nation. I’m trying to view this as a lesser of two evils situation…
And equally I hope you don’t think I was diminishing the lives lost in 9/11 or by servicemen and women in the wars that followed.
I just think we need to have different ways of dealing with these issues. The whole world is so interconnected. 9/11 didn’t happen in a vacuum, jihadist ideology takes hold for a reason. We’re never going to promote peace if our answer to hostility is force.
At the outset there were two phrases at the beginning of the Iraq war (the second one). “Shock and awe”, and “hearts and minds”.
I feel that there’s too much emphasis on the first and not enough on the second. Perhaps because the first is easier, more dramatic and instant for the voting public? The latter takes years, is undeniably harder, but there’s no other way.
Ultimately, it won’t ever persuade some, and it shouldn’t have to convince everyone of the virtues of democratic secular freedom. It does need to convince those who might otherwise rail against “western” values of the values that aren’t the preserve of the west. Respect for human life, equality, liberty within laws that enjoy society’s consent.
Accept that the world is a diverse place - that people/cultures value things differently. Honour these differences and have respect for each other.
I was against the war myself. I still am (against the actual invasion and proceeding occupation). I walked in demos against it when I was 17.
But when it was done; it was done. When you do A in my opinion you must commit to B. And then I view NATO to have a very real responsibility towards leaving with functioning and intact institutions in place. Giving hope to millions of women, rising the literacy levels of the Afghan population, giving them aspirations; and then leaving them to the mercy of the Taliban is a great crime in my view. But that is my view. Is not shared by all. Maybe not you either. That is how it is.
Just wanted to note that I was actually against the invasion itself. I don’t know why I write this really. Just wanted to mention it. I think some think I have a very narrow view of certain things but I have rather complicated opinions in reality.
The emphasis is always placed on the first one because that’s what the military is naturally. I was a combat arms officer, and even peak COIN (counter-insurgency) our forces were always much more comfortable asserting itself in a violence of action manner rather than a “hearts & minds” approach. I believe this is something fundamentally wrong with how the modern operational environment is.
Diversity is the best part about the human race. I genuinely believe that, one of the reasons I love this forum because I get opinions on subjects with so many different backgrounds. I learn so much here and I respect that from time to time our opinions will differ.
Now it is safe to say that which many have known to be Pakistan’s position for 2 decades. Unfortunately, they will never be punished for their decade long sabotage of Afghan democracy:
