So what then, more TV money is more important than sporting merit?
I find it much more interesting when it’s not always the same clubs.
I say well done when I see clubs I’ve never heard of (or never seen in the Bundesliga) get promoted, it’s brilliant for the game. Regardless of their history or population of the city/region.
Good evening @Zoran
From a purely sporting point of view, SV Elversberg would deserve to be promoted. And yes, from a sporting point of view, 1.FC Heidenheim deserved to be promoted to the Bundesliga in 2023, as did SV Darmstadt 98 in the same year and Holstein Kiel a year later.
But it’s also a shame when clubs with a large fan base and big stadiums don’t play in the Bundesliga. FC Schalke 04 was the second division club with the highest average attendance in Europe last season and the season before (2023-24). We (Hamburger SV) returned to the Bundesliga this year (after a seven-year absence) and our stadium was full in terms of average attendance in the 2022-23, 2023-24 and 2024-25 seasons. In the 2022-23 season, we were even the second division club with the highest average attendance in Europe.
Yeah, bit of a pointless debate. Of course it’s deserved if these clubs make it, they get there on sporting merit,no one is stopping them and fair play to them. Nice story too. It’s also objectively not very good for the Bundesliga if viewing figures, general interest, stadium attendances go down. It is what it is.
I has did watched the match between HSV and Mainz in a restaurant with Sky and DAZN. The owner of the restaurant (fan of Borussia Mönchengladbach) would not amused, if Elversberg would promote to Bundesliga. If great clubs with great fan bases do not play in Bundesliga, he lost guests and money.
Of course, Elversberg would deserve the promotion to Bundesliga.
It’s a shame for their fans, but hey, football turns in circles. You get good and bad periods. I don’t feel sorry for people running those clubs that have underperformed, made poor decisions, etc. Most of the time, there are good reasons why a historical/traditional club is where it is and struggling to get up again. It also shouldn’t be so straightforward because of attendances or population, that’s also what makes the game interesting.
Here in Germany, there are two camps. One camp says that it is ‘poison’ for the Bundesliga when village clubs play in the Bundesliga. The other camp says that clubs like SV Elversberg or 1.FC Heidenheim deserve it. I would say that this camp, and you, are not entirely wrong. But I prefer the big traditional clubs. 
To call it ‘poison’ is taking it way too far. We all miss a historical club like HSV when they go missing for a long time like they did, but for me, sporting merit on the field comes first. All the rest turns in cycles. They will be back. The sad thing is when some clubs (usually much smaller) come to a point of not existing anymore.
HSV (which returned to the Bundesliga this year after a seven-year absence) won 4-0 against Conference League participant Mainz 05 today and is now in eighth place in the Bundesliga (if SC Freiburg loses its away game against Borussia Mönchengladbach today). You can’t imagine how happy I am. Eighth place (or ninth place) after six match days. And that puts us ahead of FC St. Pauli, SV Werder Bremen and VfL Wolfsburg in the table.
I think you should be focusing your attention on the terrible management of clubs like Hamburg and Schalke that has allowed them to fail so miserably for so long. HSV are in a good patch now, but its forty years since they won the league.
Why have so many of the traditionally big clubs been so unsuccessful for so long and why is Bayern allowed to have such a stranglehold on the BL?
The video below names part of the reason. They became massive because of am unbelievable generation (Beckenbauer, Müller etc.), but then this also coincided with the rise of Bayern as a state in terms of economics and, not discussed here, politics, with their own Bavarian CSU in national governemnt. The combination of a lack of strong regional competition in the richest region and alliance with the German sporting giant, other economic heavyweights and politics is pretty hard to beat (also see stuff like the Kirch deal).
Since TV money plays less of a role percentage-wise than say in the PL, commercial partnerships and Champions League money are even more important and the latter gets more extreme with every year. At various points years ago some of the traditional other big clubs tried to catch up with them, usually through massive debt, which almost ruined them, as there’s no room for error. That’s an oversimplification, but at least part of the answer.
Yeah it actually goes into detail in the current book I’m reading about Schalke and those teams in that area.
HSV has won the league 42 years ago (1983). 38 years ago, we have won the DFB Cup, the last title until today. And I would be happy, we would win the German Cup.
Exactly. And you are one of the biggest clubs in Germany.
Whoa!!
This is STILL so funny 
Like the celebrating team can take no kudos from scoring.
Germany - Luxembourg 4-0
Northern Ireland - Germany 0-1
We has did took over the first place
Just watching the Bayern vs BVB game. Kane have put Bayern ahead.
BVB have been pretty useless so far, but I am curious as to how Schlotterbeck performs as we are linked with him. I’ve really seen nothing to reach for the chequebook so far. I may get a better view in the second half.
Oh yeah, I miss Diaz as well.
Probably been the most one sided 1-0 halves I’ve ever seen.
Bayern such a joy to watch lately and their front 3 is causing Dortmund all kinds of problems…oh there’s Jackson too.
I find it difficult to assess him at the moment, as he’s only just returned from a long injury layoff. A “pre-injury” Schlotterbeck would certainly be worth a look imo.