There is a bit of a contradiction in how fans want to approach squad building/renewal. There is a general understanding that the secret is to refreshing the squad - especially if you are not backed by a state - is you have to sell players at peak value and before they fade. But at the same time there is an absolute stonewall against actually doing this.
The ones that come immediately to mind are Mo Salah and Virgil Van Dijk. Both players are past thirty, appear to be at the start of a decline, but still hold good value. But don’t you dare suggest moving them on.
What it seem we want is to wait until players are shite, and then sell them for big fees. Which is obvious a bit ridiculous as if we can see a player’s legs have gone, then so can anyone who might buy them.
I think we have to understand that
a) if we want to continually churn the squad, buy 3-4 new lads a year, every year then this means we have to be continually selling players at peak value. Under this model, Mo Salah, Fabinho, Firmino, Hendo, Matip, Van Dijk would have already gone, and there are conversations in the next couple of years about Robertson and Alisson. The point where fans have to be understanding is that we are saying bye to lads who are popular and performing well.
b) the alternative is that we approach this with the mindset that it’s better the devil you know, and we hold on to performing players as long as they can deliver. So you end up giving new contracts to Salah, Hendo, Van Dijk etc. You keep renewing as long as you think the players can contribute. But this means that you lose the ability to get value for players and when the crash comes you are back at the start of a cycle looking to create a new team rather than just keep it ticking over.
That is a false dichotomy though. If you are doing A right then the players to replace them are already in place, and in lots of cases the fans are already calling for said newer player to be given more priority over the established star. In that case you can keep that player until the point they are more valuable to someone else than they are to you.
The Coutinho move is the prime example. The lesson many have taken is that if we sell well we can fund big signings. The bigger lesson should be having already bought Mo was what allowed us to navigate that situation. Mo was a player many fans didnt want and didnt see the value of because we already had the best front 3 in football. But it allowed a slow evolution of that front 3 to occur to the point that when the money came in we were already well placed to take it.
Option B becomes the outcome of A when you’re not getting in those players who can nudge an established guy out of the shirt and down the pecking order. I continue to insist our biggest issue here has been the inability to move on those guys at the edge of the squad to make room for new signings who start off as options but over the course of a season or two establish themselves. Not everyone can be a Robbo or Jota, and many will be more Minamino. But that is precisely why you need to keep the turnover happening so you make sure you’re creating room for the new players to come in and have their go and winning a shirt from someone.
Bang on. Camavinga, Touchameni,Valverde + another and Madrid can squeeze Modric and Kroos till they drop. They don’t need a fee for them. Replaced cheaper than buying ready made stars.
I completely see what you are saying, and I do agree.
But my point is more about how we as fans react to whatever strategy the club puts in place. The Coutinho move was an example of the club absolutely knocking one out of the park, but a lot of our fanbase still lost their shit and kicked off for a like for like replace the day after he went.
You could also point to bringing in Diaz ahead of Mane. Gakpo looks to be the Firmino replacement. (Maybe. I’m not sure how Nunez fits in with that though).
I think Mo Salah’s replacement is at the club, and if we get an offer in the ball park of £80m this summer I’d be totally fine with that, and comfortable with Harvey Elliott taking his place on the right of attack. But I guarantee that will go down like a lead balloon.
I suppose what I’m trying to say is that I’m totally on board with the idea of bring in the replacements ahead of the player they are replacing, but we have to be OK letting players go, and letting them go when it still feels like they have something to offer - and now I think about it, that’s not just the fans, but also Jurgen Klopp himself.
Salah won’t be here forever, but let’s not forget that last summer we both extended with Salah for 3 more years + signed Nunez as a new transfer record.
I highly doubt we had in mind to keep Mo for only one more season to play with Nunez. So, I want to see if we can play with Nunez as the central striker and Salah in his role on the right.
There’s a good chance it won’t happen until the end of this season, who does what in this attack, who starts more often (other than Salah, he starts even when he doesn’t play well, still our main goalscorer).
I hope we don’t have to touch the attack this summer, but focus on midfield and a bit on defence also.
I mean, not in terms of transfer activity. Because there is work to do on the training ground. We don’t defend well enough from the front this season and that will be one of the priorities in pre-season.
Why are you concerned with Nunez playing on the left if he is performing well and scoring goals from there? I can understand it if we’re thinking about how to add Diaz back into the mix, but I see a lot of people raising this as a concern in absolute terms, and I just dont see how anything about these performances on the left gives us any reason for concern a reason to be concerned.
I’m not concerned, I’m interested how we build our new attack, which we by large didn’t have a chance to do really this season. Almost always some key players were missing.
I highly doubt Nunez has been brought in to mainly play off the left, it’s more an option and working well, but I’m not sold that it’s our main idea.
It’s a very simple curiosity from my part. In the same window we prolong with Salah and we bring someone who is viewed as our new main striker, or at least with hope to become one.
I want to see if this team can function well with both of those players in their best roles in a 4-3-3, that we can press, link, control games, have balance. Compete and win at the top level.
Of course, there are no guarantees, but Nunez might be here after Salah and then we’ll have a different topic. In football terms, it’s still in the now and as things stand for next season at least.
I hear your general point, but I question this - is playing through the middle of a 3 really his “best” position? From what I saw of him even before he came here he gravitated to heavily to the left, and that was supported by another striker who filled the central positions and came back to the ball more.
I’d say there’s a difference between playing off the left and liking to go towards the left side when playing as the central striker. Little movements like that don’t matter that much for what I’m curious to see. That was Benfica in Portugal, he’s here now and we’ve seen him popping up a bit everywhere in behind, whether off the left or as the central guy.
According to transfermarkt (yeah, not always 100% correct, but gives an idea), in his club career so far, he’s played 147 times central and 21 times on the sides (out of which 18 on the left).
Like I say, it might not be until next season that we see that “new” fully functional attack in a functional team that is back to pressing well, being compact, controlling games and dominating most games. Being competitive and winning.
He is playing on the left because Gakpo is lost out there but better in the centre.
Nunez has looked good centrally and out wide, I don’t see a major difference in his performances. He’s a bit less involved on the left but his defensive work there is excellent.
Yeah thanks for that I’m not blind I was just making the point Jota’s best position is centrally as in most comments he was suggested as being a player on the left.
Might be worth trying a few across on Salah’s side see if any work.
We didn’t see that much, because Salah plays so often.
When Salah and Mane were in Africa last season, I remember we first tried Jota and I thought of the players available, it could make the most sense. With Jota’s ability to use both feet, instinct to go inside and pop up in goalscoring positions.
Didn’t look good for a game and then Ox did a better job, I think scoring in two games playing off the right. Diaz also had some minutes on the right and it was so-so, simply not enough sample, hard to judge.
That backup Salah role is not something we see much of, but what I’m saying is I want to see if the team can compete at the top with Nunez central and Salah in his usual role.
I know it is the Darwin thread, but I would be willing to sell Mo Salah if a decent offer came in for him, such that it enabled us to sign another of the sort of level of Diaz or Nunez, but for the right hand side.
Nothing lasts forever, and while there’s still plenty of football and goals left in Mo, part of me wants to see a new thing emerge up front.
We signed 3 forward players in the last year for £180m, that is pretty new.
I remember most people were up for agreeing a new contract with Salah. Unless something drastic happens at the top level, I don’t see him leaving this summer.
As far as the attack goes, this summer will be heads down, start pressing from the front like we need and see what’s our best starting combination.