Plot twist: Edwards was the one who instigated the signing of Núñez
(I made that up)
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In any case, 30 goal involvements in last season doesn’t sound like a fluke. 0.64, 0.84, 0.62 per 90 minutes in the past 3 seasons. It’s not like he’s a shite player who doesn’t fit in here.
Meanwhile, Jota, a player who didn’t get questioned in terms of output until this seaon, has been getting 0.73, 0.72, 0.88, 1.02, 0.78.
Take away his penalties, and Isak’s been on 0.53, 0.72, 0.96.
So in terms of what people expect as his basic job, he’s not even particularly bad. Add to the fact that quite a lot of what he used to miss was just him hitting the post or the bar, and he’s really not as bad as is being made out.
In terms of this season, it feels as though it’s more a reversal of what @Hephaestus was saying about last season, that we’re emphasising the wings more this season, not so much the centre-forwards.
Good luck to Darwin Nunez. He will surely depart this summer. We all know the score - great athletic gifts, let down by the finishing. It wasn’t to be.
Hopefully we get a good fee to reinvest. And hopefully he feels the love of the fans as the season comes to a close. Sometimes things don’t work out, but you can still end it as well as possible.
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I think there is a difference here. Jota has never been viewed as a regular starter but someone who was the back up. Nunez was signed with a view to him becoming a key part of the starting attack. Furthermore, we create an awful lot more than Newcastle do, don’t we - and part of the criticism of Nunez is around missing some of those chances that look fairly straight forward - so I don’t know how that may affect the relevance of those stats?
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Don’t try too hard to normalize the data. The pure fact is he only scored 9, 11, and 5 (will he score more this season?) in the league in 3 seasons with us. That number will never be good enough for a main striker. simple that.
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What do you mean by “try too hard to normalize the data”?
Or are you just ignoring whatever doesn’t agree with your viewpoint?
Is that the case?
Those columns are (league) games played, starts, and minutes.
Jota has been starting most of his games played.
And for a large part of the past two seasons he’s created a lot of those chances himself. His finishing has been discussed ad nauseam already, and while it isn’t sparkling, it’s average at worst.
The question is, can Isak do so much that we could effectively trade Núñez in for him (by selling him on somewhere else) without too much of a premium that the buying club might as well just buy Isak for themselves, while making enough of a difference?
I’m more sceptical than that. I’m also a lot more sceptical than most people about transfer activity because people always seem to expect far more activity than we actually have done.
Maybe he’ll leave, maybe he won’t. He already is a good player, and he could still do a lot better if his finishing and mentality were more consistent. But Arne’s words in the press conference yesterday should give people far more pause.
You already know the answer.
It’s common sense to expect the team to become better. I don’t think anyone else is satisfied with a 10-goal-a-season striker. It’s mid-table level, and rightly to demand a new one. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.
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They are the exact same numbers Bobby posted for us in his last 3 seasons, so you are saying that Firmino wasn’t good enough for us?
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Apples and oranges.
Bobby was pretty much a false 9, linking play up. Darwin is supposed to be an out and out striker.
Bobby was good enough, Darwin isn’t.
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Both played in the middle of a front 3, so are centre forwards. Looking a bit deeper, Darwin’s assists stats for the 3 seasons are 3, 8 and 2. Bobby’s assists in his last 3 seasons were 7, 4, 4. So both gave the exact same goal contributions over 3 seasons.
Apples to oranges is bullshit. if you write Darwin off due to his goal scoring, the you need to apply the same logic to Bobby or you are talking complete and utter crap.
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Bobby is the only one whom Klopp directly mentioned as the system. He could be the most important player in Klopp’s system. Nunez, on the other hand, is Slot’s third-choice CF, after a winger and a half-fit striker.
Compare them its like not watching us at all.
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If you think comparing Darwin and Bobby is comparing like with like, then there’s honestly not much point debating with you… because you clearly don’t get it.
Saying they’re the same because they played the same position is like comparing Mike Tyson to a circus act who throws on gloves for a freak show. Both technically boxers, but come on - completely different levels, purpose and impact.
You can’t ignore context, quality and role just because the job title matches. That is apples to oranges. If you can’t see that, you’re not making a real argument… you’re just talking nonsense.
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I think this is wrong because it ignores what else, if anything they provide in that role.
However, its worth remembering that the same criticism was often applied by fans to Bobby - and was seen as a factor in why we sought to bring in a player such as Nunez over another false 9.
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According to who?
I understand he was a winger.
He’s no fox in the box so what kind of stiker do you ‘want’ him to be?
It’s also worth noting that we have, and are keeping, a main goal scorer. No other ‘striker’ for us has been particularly prolific. Diaz looks even worst than Nunez in that position imo.
Surely if we want a striker we need to find a 10 who can compliment someone, no? Someone running about in space just doesn’t do it!
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Out and out striker doesn’t mean fox in the box exclusively, it means someone whose primary job is to lead the line and score goals. Darwin was brought in as a central forward, not a creative winger. Just because he can drift wide or run channels doesn’t change that.
Someone else being poor, like Diaz in your opinion, doesn’t change the fact that Darwin has been awful. Pointing at others doesn’t excuse his finishing, decision-making or lack of composure. If he’s meant to be our striker, he has to deliver, simple as that.
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That was more because finding a comparable player was such a difficult prospect, but it is right to remember that Bobby’s lack of direct productivity was why lots of fans quickly came to view Jota as preferable to him
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We still need someone to play through the centre and we haven’t got anyone. That’s the point. To find someone who does fit in there with our ‘system’ is not going to be easy. As shown by us bringing in a winger, Nunez, to lead the line.
The problem will stay the same!
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I think you’re in the minority if you think Nunez’s primary position is currently, or has ever been, a “winger”.
Yes, he can be deployed on the left wing, just as Curtis Jones and Quansah have been deployed as right backs recently… but none of these roles would be these player’s primary position.
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As a striker when playing in a front 2 he liked to pull off into the left half space, meaning his heat map at Benfica was not too different than you see from the player who plays on the left of a 3, which is why there were periods where it looked like that might be the best option for him here
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I think with our wingers demanding the ball more and more , our system isn’t conducive in terms of goal outputs to out and out strikers or forward players used to playing in a team of the front two.
Nunez has plenty of qualities that potentially make him a very valuable player for Liverpool. But due to our system being what it is , we aren’t in a position to maximize him.
And also , his profilgacy in terms of goals did play an equally important role. You don’t expect a forward to be having those lack of goals.
He might come good in other premier league sides. Arsenal springs to mind immediately. But not for us. Serie A will be probably apt for him but don’t think any serie A clubs will pay the required transfer fee.