But the idea of having a basic civics test, to show that you have the very basic knowledge about how your democracy works to be able to vote in general elections, isn’t really the same as excluding prisoners. I am arguing a bit with myself here, but it may have some merit. It is a some what elitist idea though I guess. Not really the sort of thing I would normally pander. But good grief, there are so many uninformed voters to cast important decisions for everyone else. Anyway, purely hypothetical …
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Just to continue my note above, in many countries (also the US I believe, though I may be wrong here), it is usual with a citizenship test for immigrants to show they have gained enough knowledge about their immigration destination to become full citizens with voting rights. So a general, not at all too difficult a test in civics, isn’t completely outrageously unheard of. The idea is usually pandered by Right Wing types who seek only to exclude people with low language abilities to gain citizenship, which makes me uncomfortable for sure, but it would set a bar on minimum knowledge in a voter; which could possible help people make democratic decisions from a better vantage point. And really, if it is fair to hold immigrants to such a standard, why should ones own be lower ?
But I agree that education is key. But like some political pundits like to point to, the vast majority of Trumplandia is from the generation where public education was better in the US (correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I have been lead to believe, that boomers had it more easy concerning public education that is), so it might not be the entire answer in itself.
To be honest, I am clueless as to how to fix the issue with low information voters in the US, a problem for minds who study such issue in their special fields I believe. But it makes me very uneasy that such a powerful country is managed on the basis of so many low information votes, since it has repercussions globally and not just for the US.
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When I became a citizen here, I had to do a civics test. US history, government, etc. For fun I asked my colleagues some of the questions, which to be fair, were pretty basic things. None of my colleagues has less than a Bachelor’s degree, but the lack of knowledge was interesting to me, and I joked at the time that many of them should be deported!
The galling thing about democracy, and actually the beautiful thing too, is that everyone within the system gets a vote. We do have significant societal problems, and rampant bad faith within politics is amply enabled by the pitfalls of social media.
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As I’ve said before, the western (and, increasingly, global) education system isn’t fit for purpose. All they want is a nation of drones and consumers.
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Sure, let’s get a good old dictatorship going, or some kind of social elitism. I’m sure that will fix things for good. 
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Not actually what I was talking about, mate. I was talking about setting up some minor bars to reach to cast a vote, which is maybe controversial, but It is not the same. But yeah, it is elitist, sure. The US has a very important electorate though, since it has so much global power. Having major world events decided on a whim due to the votes of the very, very ignorant, isn’t ideal.
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If we stop the wrong kind of people voting we could solve all the problems.
How do we decide the wrong kind of people,should we have a vote on it 
Thank God Trump didnt think of it or he may have won a legal election instead of losing an illegal one.
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I was talking about a civics test, same as one use to allow immigrants to settle. Just to demonstrate basic knowledge of the political system, any functioning democracy needs informed voters, it is the very basis that any democracy rests on. And it is not working very well in the US at this time.
But regardless, it’s just an idea.
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I’m totally onboard with the idea that democracy needs a high level of education within the population to be fully effective. But my take is that it isn’t a lack of education which hampers democracy right now.
Democracy was implemented at a time during which 80-90% of people were illiterate, and this political model helped to get where we are now, which is roughly the inverse proportion.
My take: it’s the sources people are taking their news from. That’s what needs to be addressed. Too much nonsense is written all over the internet, and people tend to take it as gospel. Not only illiterate or uneducated people. Everyone can fall into that trap, and does it at times. Slashing Facebook and Twitter, as well as the recognised fake news sites, would go a long way to restore some common sense in people’s heads imo.
On the other hand, giving up on the principles of a democracy for everyone looks like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It’s a very dangerous idea.
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Don’t know who said it originally but something along the lines of “Democracy is the least worst system we’ve come up with to date, ideas for better alternatives are keenly encouraged”
The method in which democracy is implemented can certainly be improved. Giving the old POTUS an extra few months after losing is most certainly something to look at.
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Are we seeing a clash between freedom of speech and democracy here.
Places like Twitter, Facebook and the media having the full freedom to almost print or say what they want and literally spreading lies under the guise of freedom.
I honestly don’t know what the answer is.
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Yeah absolutely. My take is that the notion of ‘freedom of speech’ needs to be closely looked at, and perhaps to be redefined.
It’s simply not acceptable in my book that every kind of nonsense can be published without any backlash. We have already seen that racism/sexism has started to be defined as not acceptable, and out of the limits of freedom of speech. People can be punished in some countries if they write racist/sexist things. That wasn’t the case twenty-thirty years ago.
I think that the same should happen with people who write factually wrong things. They should be taken to task, punished, and forced to retract their stuff.
And Facebook/Twitter should be closely looked at too. They should be fined heavily if they allow fake news to be reverberated on their platforms. It would be even better if they disappear completely.
One problem I have is when does an opinion become factually incorrect dangerous. I don’t think there’s defined line, it’s more of a gray area. The UK press seems to thrive on this with various opinion pieces influencing people’s thoughts and ideas. Of course the conspiracy theorists also know this territory really well.
Well for instance, just to take a current problem: if someone has a news website and writes that covid-19 is a hoax, he or she should be taken to task. Plain and simple. Hand him a fine, force him to retract his statement, and warn him that next time, his/her website will be taken down.
Same for those who put in doubt the mechanisms of transmission of the virus, or some other ludicrous and made up stuff.
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That certainly addresses the obvious one’s, it’s the ones that skirt that gray area that bug me more than anything.
For example, the belief that vaccines haven’t been tested enough. When is enough? That requires some faith in the science which seems in really short supply in places.
I’ve also seen reports of deaths following the vaccine etc. No idea if these are true or not but these people play on these facts.
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Well, addressing the obvious ones would already be a start. Of course, it’s not about instoring a black-and-white vision , there will always be grey zones and discussion-worthy topics.
But the topics which have been clearly proven wrong by science (ie. flat earth theories, covid is a hoax, earth was created in seven days and is no more than 6’000 years old) should really be dealt with. Freedom of speech shouldn’t be an excuse for talking shite all day.
Of course, having a potus in charge who does exactly that doesn’t help… 
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Having education barriers to voting wouldn’t have changed any of the recent elections anyway. Poor people are often blamed for Trump, Johnson and Brexit but the biggest supporters of those three votes were white, male and rich.
An education or knowledge barrier will only reinforce our broken hyper capitalist systems.
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The problem with that is who decides what is factually correct?
Look at the coronavirus pandemic as an example: different experts give different opinions. And they’re all highly qualified scientists.
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Possibly the slipperiest slope in history.
On average, men are taller than women. Recently, black men have been the fastest sprinters on the planet. Are either of those statements racist or sexist? Are they discriminatory or factual? We’re back to who watches the watchmen.
If you abandon freedom of speech, you put the decision of what can be said in somebody else’s hands. Whos? Mine? Boris’s? Corbyn’s? The pope’s?
There have to be exceptions to freedom of speech, for example shouting “fire” “bomb” or “gunman” in a packed theatre is absolutely a no no but beyond that, a tricky and tangled path.
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That is exactly what’s happening now. Saying that the virus is a hoax in the middle of a pandemic has just the same result.
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