This isn’t what we are seeing though is it?
We’re seeing 73 year old frail women with psychiatric problems.
Nervous black car drivers trying to show their papers (admittedly often very fat). …
How often does it actually involve a 250kg nutjob on meths?
The reason choke holds are being ‘banned’ is it’s not this type of person that’s on the recieveing end it’s much weaker people. Using this type of example is perverse!
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I think they are allowed to use tasers on that type of person aren’t they?
Otherwise, why have them at all?
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What I see as the major problem with ‘police’ is you have a certain number who are looking for action and escalation.
When things go wrong we often see multiple policemen with guns drawn, a policeman or more rushing in to attack ‘the suspect’ and all shouting different orders which are all garbled and unintelligible. Btw this isn’t just a problem in the U.S here in France it’s often the case.
On the otherside there’s a nervous ‘suspect’ who doesn’t know how to react and due to not understanding the multiple confused orders shouted at him proceed to do something that might be deemed stupid but in ‘normal’ life would be normal.
This imo points to a good number of police needing to be sacked and the others having more training above all how to remain calm and collected. I mean why for one 'suspect do they need to point 4 guns when one would do?
Also the public need to be informed even trained how to react if ever they are confronted with arm drawn police. E.g try to stay calm, hang your head, drop to your knees, slowly drop anything in your hands on the floor then put them on the back of your head. Wait until you hear clear instructions then follow them. This would leave the police to decide for a small percentage who don’t react like this why they don’t react as prescribed, innocent person with problems, druck, drug abuser, dangerous criminal …
At the moment it is NOT the publics fault at all, they just don’t know how to react.
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Absolutely correct.
You do not see the 250lb monster on meth being arrested on Youtube. You see little old ladies being terrorised by Police officers “out of control”. Why? Because the little old lady is good news material - it sells papers and gets clicks. Violent Meth addict getting arrested on the underground is so commonplace it garners zero media attention. There will always be incidents of unwarranted police violence - there will always be mistakes, accidents and misjudgments alongside incidents of criminality - the same is seen in all occupations.
Choke holds are still commonplace in many forces in the USA. If performed correctly, with the correct prior training, they are a far far less lethal weapon than a gun. It is when poorly trained officers fail to conduct them properly and safely that things go wrong. They are a normal and effective method of self defense used in Ju Jitsu for instance - which is the most defensive and arguably most controlled form of martial arts. A number of US forces have free Ju Jitsu training for all their serving officers. The impact this has had on injuries to offenders and to officers is remarkable. And yes choke holds are taught within Ju Jitsu as a self defense “weapon” How is that possibly perverse when it is statistically proven to reduce injuries to police and offender?
Edit - Over 85% of arrests in the USA are non violent and no physical restraint is required during the arrest. They don’t get views on YouTube either.
Edit 2. Perhaps my original post did not convey the situation correctly - If you take away the rights of officers to effectively physically control offenders, then their first reaction will be to draw their weapon - for their own self defense. And that is not good.
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Crime increased all over the country, with there being absolutely no effect for how policing was affected by the Defund movement.
The difference between a criminal investigation and the sort being discussed is the disclosure to the public of findings. An FBI investigation will only make public the information directly related to the charges they bring. There is a lot of relevant stuff that gets found that does not get included in that. The Benghazi hearings were useless in unearthing meaningful information because that was not the point of them, There was nothing there to reveal, but they suited a political purpose of having something negative in the news about the next Dem nominee in waiting. Citing that as a reason why a legit investigation into a legit issue is pointless makes no sense.
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The ‘defund the police’ movement is based on the idea that a lot of money that is currently spend on funding an institutionally racist, militarised police force, would be better spent on programmes and initiative to prevent people falling into criminal lifestyles in the first place.
It’s not an idea that should be dismissed out of hand.
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He was banned for being a prick to anyone disagreeing with him.
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We’re trying not to resort to the ban stick in our new home, and purposefully allowing disputes to resolve themselves, sometime with a word to suggest everyone calm down. Of course, this relies on people being sensible and calming down their own confrontations.
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The thing is police in the U.S. have to cope with a highly armed, high boozed, highly drugged society. It’s not easy. OK, here’s one.
Last summer (I think it was Detroit, but there’s been so many). A young Black male goes to a house party to attempt to take away his children to whom he does not have custody. The police are called. They arrive. Said young Black man resists arrest, gets into a physical altercation with them during which it comes to light he may have a knife (I don’t recall whether he actually had a knife, and it doesn’t actually matter. Once you decide to fight with police, I have little sympathy for you. Anyway, he manages to get in his car with his kids. The police, having been attacked by this guy and not knowing what are his true intentions, shoot him dead.
Now, the liberal media and so-called social activists in general call for the two officers to be indicted for murder. We get coverage about what a nice man this fellow was, taken from us too early etc. Not any comments about his own actions and decisions led to his death. No narrative at all about the possibility he meant the kids harm (as we’ve seen many times in other cases).
And there have been many similar stories in the last year. No balance. And yet people say that only right wing rhetoric is dangerous.
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In general I don’t like the phrase “the liberal media” as it implies the media is liberal.
The most watched ‘news’ channel is Fox, and that is very right wing. In addition there are other even more extreme right wing stations that have sprung up, such as One America News and Newsmax.
Coming from England and having lived in America for over a decade, there is a different scale over here with what is regarded as left and right. Far left in America would be quite centrist, or only very slightly left of center, in England and western European politics.
What is often branded “conservative” here in America would be very far to the right in England and Europe, and would be bordering on fringe nationalist or even fascist parties.
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Yes there are huge issues with cops - practically everywhere. But mindlessly saying all cops are assholes does not solve any problem whatsoever. -
What do you suggest then - no law enforcement? Natural justice? Perhaps we could go back to mob rule and lynching’s? Private security? Get rid of the cops and you can bet your ass that the rich will pay to be protected and watch on while the poor eat each other alive.
Are you going to attend when some maniac is beating on his wife and kids? Are you going to attend horrific car accidents? Are you going to visit the family of suicides and break the news to them? Are you going to interview rape victims and track down the bastard(s) that did it? Are you happy to be punched, kicked, spat on, threatened and abused on nearly a daily basis?
Its pretty fucking easy to point the finger at incidents and say bad policing, bad policy and bad decisions represents all cops - So what do you suggest - you are against increased training for the current forces, so who do you want patrolling the streets?
When there is something wrong in your neighbourhood, who you gonna call, Ghostbusters?
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The trick with crime is to understand where crime comes from. 99% it’s a direct result of, or associated with, poverty. You direct policies at alleviating poverty, raising human dignity and tackling inequality, and most crime disappears.
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Yep absolutely.
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Police/law enforcement agencies are essential. However there must be strong oversight, transparency and accountability of their actions. That supervision can only be ensured by the political leadership. Unfortunately, the politicians use the law enforcement forces to protect their own interest and agenda.
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Not sure its 99% but the principle is correct and you make a very important point Mascot.
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Figure of speech on my part, but you know what I mean.
Interesting aside, quite a few years ago someone I know worked in the home office on a review of policing and crime policy. The review was basically buried as politically unreleasable, as no matter what angle his team approached the problem from the screamingly obvious conclusion from all the data, the interviews, and so on, was that there are a lot of very stupid police officers, as it remains a pretty solid way for someone with little intelligence to earn a 35-40k salary. And this is compounded by the fact that anyone entering the police force with any degree of intelligence is promoted very quickly leaving a dearth of competence at beat level.
Another aspect of the review was around drug policy, and the conclusion was that a ridiculous proportion of criminal activity had a drug issue at its roots (which itself is a function of poverty). Basically if you decriminalise drug use and provide safe, controlled access to everything from weed to heroin, you’d eradicate a huge amount of crime. The reason you don’t is because it’s polically untenable. We’d rather have a crime problem than admit the war on drugs is unwinnable.
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I think if the President’s vaccine goal is met, everyone gets free beer July 4th to celebrate.
Lots of states are now doing a lottery for a million dollars for people who get the vaccine too.
Murica!