For me, everyone’s behavior has already been thoroughly reported. Also, the event itself was pretty obvious, especially its danger to our democracy.
No one’s mind is going to be changed or enlightened by a commission. It will just become inflammatory political fodder. People have the ability to decide whether to vote for their elected officials again, and sadly most will.
That said, if Congress had voted to have a commission, I’d also be fine with it. I just don’t think it matters much that we won’t have one. People understand one party is under the sway of a demagogue.
Of course it’s symbolism, but we should never underestimate the power of symbols in politics. It’s a chance for Congress to stand together and condemn this type of behaviour, to make a stance for what it, as an institution, is supposed to represent. As it is, the demagogue remains unchastised by the very institution his followers invaded. His underlings can continue to pretend that it was no big deal. A forthright bi-partisan condemnation would be good for democracy, this path isn’t.
From a perspective of idealism, I agree with you. Not gonna happen, though. Even worse, some of the Republican condemnations in the immediacy have been retracted in the aftermath. Lindsey Graham and Turtlehead McConnell prominent among them. I have more respect for Josh Hawley than for either of them. At least he doesn’t waffle.
Really, there almost isn’t such a thing as a conservative anymore. There are right wing full-on nutters and left-wing full-on nutters, both cohorts talking near nonsense while constructing a house of cards.
That is what “they” want you to think. Divide and rule.
The truth is that most people fall into the middle ground, but it’s the extremists who get all the air time as it fits the agenda of the ruling class. It isn’t very different here in the UK.
Absolutely. The Conservative narrative is that there’s an equivalence between AOC, Bernie etc and the far right MAGA crowd, but it just isn’t true. The former would be standard Social Democrats here, whereas the Hawley and Taylor Greene types would be in extreme right wing parties like the FN or the AFD. Progressive policies like universal healthcare and education, union rights, taxíng the hyper-rich and protecting the environment are mainstream in Europe. That doesn’t mean that everything is rosy here, or that we don’t have fascists and racist too, but nobody thinks that policies that support the poor and needy are radical or crazy.
Not sure if you have such a thing in the UK or Europe, but to me the call to Defund the Police is as radical and dangerous as anything the right is proposing.
Wasn’t just wording, though. These knuckleheads were actually calling to disband their police forces. AOC was, too. Not just reform. What happened? Police left the force. Those who remained performed their shifts limiting their interactions with the public to the extent possible. Crime increased.
There has only ever been 1 poster banned from TAN (DioufGates) the main thing I remember about him is he hated Biden as much as Trump. Wanted a progressive left leader and hated centralists.
Without going back and looking at posts I can say with almost certainty not banned for political views.
Yes, we should have a police force… it is right and good.
They should be better trained, and de escalation training is needed as part of that. They should also be much less militarized, so if defunding them from looking like the army of a mid-sized nation is the idea, then I’m all for that.
But carte blanche defunding the police?
An obviously silly idea.
Also, weeding out bad cops and racist cops is in everyone’s best interest, as the public needs a police force it trusts, and the police need a cooperative public too. Win-win.
I’m not casting aspersions on mods more than to say (and perhaps it was more in TIA days) that righties would get pounced on in general and when they lashed out there was generally less forbearance for them, leading to bannings (ostensibly for the lashing out but ultimately for the views themselves). Could just be my imperfect impression, and since I no longer have access to the ban list on TIA unable to research.
Very glad to hear there has been but one banning in TAN days because IMO there was too much banning on TIA.
I’ve only ever seen “Defund the Police” as a tagline for the idea of reducing spending on police forces (several police forces own literal tanks FFS) and stemming the militarisation of the police. Also reducing the responsibilities of individual officers which are clearly acknowledged to be far too high. A serving cop in the US ends up being asked to be law enforcement, teacher, social worker, weapons expert, truancy officer… and a whole heap of other roles most of which they aren’t trained for in the course of the same day.
The concept I’ve seen is to reduce the police spending and simultaneously increase spending on social services and more specially trained individuals to take on roles and responsibilities currently left to horribly overworked and undertrained cops.
Average hours of mandatory police training in the US for physically controlling and containing a suspect without using weapons = 4 hours every 2 years.
When faced with a 6ft, 250lb hulk out of his mind on meth is it any wonder that the US police reach for either taser or gun to defend themselves and the public. Your brain is in fight or flight mode, your 4 hours training a year ago is not going to help you now. You must react or come to some serious harm. What would you do?
They are not paid enough or trained enough to enter into unarmed combat with people that could potentially kill them. De-escalation training is patchwork and piecemeal across US police forces. The problem is not so much with specific officers ( though there are always some bad apples in every profession) the problem is with their woefully inadequate training.
In NY arresting officers are no longer permitted to apply choke holds and can only subdue a criminal by holding onto their limbs. pinning a person to the ground by using your bodyweight on their torso is no longer permitted. Initially you may feel that it is a good move, in light of the death of George Floyd. But put yourself in the cops place - the same 6ft 250lb, methed up, angry and irrational offender is coming straight at you - do you grab his arm or do you grab your gun?
Resignations and early retirement requests are at an all time high in NYPD. Which means there will be an influx of poorly trained rookies soon patrolling the streets.