Drill Baby Drill...the US Politics Thread (Part 2)

Away End - General Chat
2446

A friend of mine last week raised what I thought was an interesting observation. So much of oppositional sentiment to conventional wisdom Covid approaches were based on wanting the world to be different than it actually is - if I believe in my heart that the virus is a trivial risk then these are the ways I would react to this situation. Right, but it doesnt matter how “unscared” you are catching it. The affect it has on you, and the risks you then pose to people around you, are completely indendent of the imagined world you think we should be living.

I think a lot of Trumpism is the same with regards to globalism. They live in a world where America has dominion over the western hemisphere and everything else is too far away to have an impact on them. This IS the the McKinley doctrine that Trump seems so eager to revive, but if you follow that today you just push everyone into the arms of China, and possibly the gulf nations.

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2447

The average American has had far more say in what is happening now than the average Gazan had in what has happened since October 2023, yet Americans on the whole have been comfortable with the notion of collective punishment for Gazans because Hamas was ‘their’ government.

Not bothering to vote is a very weak defence.

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2448

PS - I had my own ‘what the hell has happened to my country?’ moment a few years ago with Brexit.

Back in the day, long before Brexit, we lived in the UK. It was pre-kids and my wife had a job with a European organization, based in our home in the UK, but she would travel a fair amount too. From time to time I would tag along for a day or two, especially if it was a nice place, or a chance for a bit of sunshine.

The point being, it all seemed so open, free and civilized. Everything was possible. We liked Spain. Maybe one day toward retirement we would work there the last few years, find a nice place and retire? No solid plans were made, but everything was open and possible.

Life took us in a different direction to the US, and then when Brexit happened the possibility of Europe just seemed further away to us. Again, we had no solid plan, but the door just felt like it closed.

As an Englishman I do remember some feelings about my fellow countrymen, along the lines of, ‘What the bloody hell has happened to you?’

Clearly not everyone wanted Brexit, and not everyone was responsible. That’s a fairer way to look at it, and… to make the point…

Hopefully America will come to be viewed in the same way. Not everyone here wanted this, and not everyone is responsible. And the margin was very close - a couple hundred thousand votes, nationally. With the likes of Musk with his hand on the tiller, and the well documented voter suppression tactics over the years, I think we’ve been robbed.

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2449

Not sure what Gaza has got to do with this?

Millions of Americans have been very uncomfortable with what has happened to Gaza. I have been appalled. I was proud of the numerous protests here.

When added up with all the other protests in numerous countries around the world, it has not been enough to help the Palestinians and what has happened is a stain on the world.

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2450

Not voting is a cop out and is not mitigating. Not in such an election. Voting is a requirement in important elections, not something you can hide behind.

A majority of Americans are responsible for this, not a minority. This wasn’t one election, this isn’t 2016. It is 2025. No one gets to use the German excuse. This is much, much worse than voting for the NSDAP in 1933 (under dire crushing socioeconomical and sociopolitical conditions, totally incomparable to the US).

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2451

Watching from the outside, every US citizen and resident should be outraged by what is going on. Like I just don’t get people doing the jagsfan hands out look and laughing incredulously at what is going on and then just moving on as if all we can do is laugh. Your country and democracy is going down the shitter not by the day, but by the minute. If I had any patriotic bone in my body, and I was an American (I am and have neither) I wouldn’t be sitting idly by and just discussing this with anger.

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2452

I am not defending not voting. I’d like to see it made mandatory.

But blaming the whole country for what is happening seems unfair, especially when many millions of people actively did not choose this path.

Trump only won by a small margin, and there were nefarious actors who helped that to happen.

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2453

This !

Not voting is not a defence. There are individuals who could not vote, true. Most could. Most were responsible. They were ok with this. Ok enough not to vote. Of course the majority of Americans and American society itself is to blame.

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2454

I am not blame the “whole country”. I am blaming the majority and that is far from unfair. When Germans can be blamed for nazism. And they are blamed all the time. Then for fuck’s sake, Americans are much more responsible for Trump than Germans were for Hitler. And no one gives the German masses a “get out of jail card”.

Also, the “Trump only won by a small margin” defence is acceptable in 2016. In 2025, not so. That Harris did not win by a landslide, a massive landslide, is damning for US society and I think deep down you know that.

But I am not going to pester people with my judgemental thoughts anymore (for some time anyway), but let’s be clear, I have them. Rather sick of the excuses from Democrats on behalf of the US public, that is all. US society is ill and that is something Americans will have to face up to one day. But I doubt they will for decades to come without a catastrophical geopolitical defeat (like I have said before).

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2455

This!
Because it’s happening all over the western world.
I know many don’t really know what’s happening in France (where I live) however it’s monstrous.
The whole thing is set up to bash anyone who doesn’t earn more than the national average.
Democracy has evaporated in the name of capitalism, economic théories without foundation and above all for the rich and multinationals who are without scrupules. We must tolerate this or those with the riches will leave us so let’s give them more.
Ok the US is worst as it’s all for one mans ego. Yet all our democracies are suffering similar nonsenses.
To alleviate my dispair I have to laugh at the madness of it all. How did we get here?

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2456
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2457

Greed?

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2458

Fake news!

2459

I understand this, and of course, I sympathize with those who didn’t want this horrible clown, and still will have to live with them. But I still have a hard time to understand how stupid people can be, voting against their own best interests…

Yeah, the sadness isn’t easy to see from the outside, it’s the sadness of a minority. All you see are MAGA retards parading the American flag on their pick-up, and that horrible clown making another show while signing his decrees… :see_no_evil:

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2460

How is it to be constantly targeted by that big clown? Did you see the new map he posted on his instagram account (I think, my daughter showed it to me today), with Canada and the US covered by the US flag, with the comment: Oh Canada? :see_no_evil:

Edit: here it is…

image
image954×1106 52.5 KB

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2461

Trump didn’t win because of fake news alone.We all hear that same fake news but most don’t believe it.

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2462

One of the biggest problems the Dems have is that to address what is happening to them politically they need to acknowledge that a sizeable portion of the populations is awful and/or idiotic. Instead they preach “this is not who we are” shit, which completely misses the what is happening. The problem is the Republicans are allowed to come out and say this - “fuck the people of LA fleeing from fires, because are deranged libs whose DEI policies brought this on themselves”. This shit happens on a daily basis across the entire party and larger RW media and not a single eye brow is raised in response. But Clinton saying that when trying to reach Trump voters we have to be realistic because some are unreachable because they are deplorable, but to the others we have a message that should resonate with them, that is a campaign defying gaff. And not only that, the general coverage pretended she said something different than she said (that if you support Trump you are deplorable).

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2463

Did the flag have an extra star?

2464

The majority of people have even less than a superficial understanding of politics. Voters will talk about policy, but they are never talking about actual policy. They are talking about vibe. There is a famous clip of a cattle farmer up on Wyoming or somewhere whose entire business is dependent on migrant labor talking to the news about his support of Trump. He was asked about the implication of Trump’s immigration policies and he said he agreed with them. When explained what they are he understood they would be ruinous to his business. But he still supported Trump because he didnt believe he would follow through with these policies.

Everyone is incredulous about the dissonance, but this is entirely consistent with how most voters process political information. He supports a politician because of the way they make them feel and say that is about “policies”. But they dont have to agree with the actual policies, and often dont or even know what they say in practice. The politican elicits a feeling from them during the campaign and they want the politican to make them feel that after election. They realize that will be enacted via the policies followed so say they support their policies even when they actually dont. I think this is the biggest disconnect between what actually happens in elections vs what the press think elections are about.

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2465

Neoliberalism.

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