I just edited my post above and put the map in. I’ll let you count the stars though. 
4 Likes
I engaged because I was surprised at Arminius talking about all of America.
I specifically tried to sift out the segments - Trump? Trump and his cabinet/project 25 people? The MAGA people? Or all of America?
And he went with all of America.
That’s what I think is desperately unfair, as many millions, including me and my whole family, absolutely did not vote for this.
To blame all Americans seems ridiculous to me.
3 Likes
Agree. As I have mentioned before, I have already been yelled at while on the street to leave the country. So I am feeling the sadness and fear. I tend to accept that some of the majority are driven simply by hate. But I also realize some are driven by pain and have been left in dire straits by neoliberals and the broligarchy. I have some compassion for that latter group even if their desperation is manifesting as hate.
It’s easy to forget we have good people too, like our very own @StevieJayUSA, who are marching despite the headwinds. I see @RedOverTheWater making the same point and couldn’t agree more.
7 Likes
To take engineer’s terms: key parts of the structure have already collapsed. What is yet to come, is the rest of the structure coming down.
3 Likes
8 Likes
It’s disgusting to be treated like that…
I wish you the very best, and hope that everthing will be good for you and your family going forward.
6 Likes
You jumped into my conversation in responding to Arminius. My objection is the lumping of all Americans in with this.
it’s sloppy and poor form to blame all Americans for Trump when very clearly, many millions did not vote for him.
But to tackle your point, yes, the majority of Americans either voted for Trump, or did not vote at all.
I think it is crazy, and I don’t know what the hell is wrong with people. It’s an oligarchy/personality cult, with massive global connotations.
5 Likes
Oh please. This is more like.
2 Likes
As @Magnus and others have pointed out, it wasn’t the majority who put Trump in power.
However, the minority has suddenly been empowered to become more vocal and less reticent about their bigotry and racism.
2 Likes
Wish we had @Magnus’ majority
2 Likes
On this point, I’d like to see voting made mandatory in America. But even then it would not be enough because the information system is broken.
Still, I’ll comment on the actual turnout and give a couple comps:
69.3%
Voter turnout for the 2024 American Presidential Election.
62.6%
Voter turnout for the 2021 Canadian election. Really? Even less than the uneducated, voter suppressed country to the south!
59.7%
Voter turnout for the 2024 UK general election. Ugh. What’s wrong with people? Get out and vote!
77.2%
Voter turnout for the 2021 Norwegian election.
I was surprised by Norway - smaller country, 5.5 million. Well educated, enlightened, surely everyone would be mobilized to do their civic duty? There’s no real history of voter suppression, and nowhere near the level of misinformation/disinformation we just saw Musk and the like inflict on the American people. And 23% of the Norwegian people couldn’t be arsed to vote? Ugh.
I did a quick Google search, so if my Norway number is way off, I stand to be corrected.
Bottom Line:
For me I am as incredulous/pissed off as anyone about the direction America is heading. My whole family voted for the other option. My whole family is actively engaged, in the circles we have and with the people we know, in speaking out against what is happening.
It’s frustrating to me to hear people in other countries say all Americans are responsible for this. It’s not true.
2 Likes
To be completely honest, the civic opposition before,and after the election and now is weak as shit. You’d think at some point you’d at least see mass marches/protests or similar, but pretty much nothing.
9 Likes
Especially with third party fuckery over the past few elections (often by boosted by entities interested in them being a legitimate spoiler), there has been a lot of emphasis on the idea that any vote that isnt cast against Trump is a vote for him. That is true if you vote third party or if you abstain. I have advocated that position and so to me it was a majority who put Trump in, even if it was only a minority who affirmatively voted for him.
3 Likes
I saw a reportage/documentary some years ago about increasing intolerance in the USA.
There was a scène in a restaurant where a familly at a table where speaking to each other in Spanish. Suddenly some jerk started hollering at them to speak ‘American’ (whatever that language is?) then there where a horde of neandertals hollering at this poor familly to speak ‘American’.
I lie writing this wondering how things are going now in Florida, Texas, New Mexico …
I think the scene I described was filmed somewhere in Texas. I think some are really going to regret voting for Trump as the shackles come off his supporters.
Hey! Idiots it’s too late!
I would be really scared if I lived in the USA as I feel the MAGA lot believe in free speech soo much they are more likely to shoot you than allows any free speech.
1 Like
This is a good point. You’d expect people to at least take a stand against the latest developments, but there seems to be a deep passivity, or indifference among the people who are against that. But maybe that is a flawed view? @RedOverTheWater ?
2 Likes
Totally agree. I do think there is despair stemming from people not seeing an obvious platform to turn toward in a fight against institutional collapse. As AOC says in the video I posted above, the Dems are clueless and offer nothing. It will take time to find an organizing force, I think. These aren’t normal times and the answers aren’t obvious.
Again, see @StevieJayUSA doing his bit. There are many also like my own daughter, who are quietly and even more passionately, doing their parts. It just goes unseen when the cacophony is louder than ever before. I am even prouder of these individuals. It’s easy to critique and much harder to redouble efforts that seem fruitless. Perhaps it will all happen at a smaller and local level. I have no clue. But I’d love to hear ideas from those suggesting something happen.
4 Likes
I think there is a combination of demoralization, resigned acceptance that this is what the electorate wanted even after everything that came before, and a tactical reappraisal of how to combat this knowing the “everything is an 11” approach of last time didnt work.
We are lacking the big public displays of opposition that we saw last time. Think the difference in response to the “muslim ban” with airports overran by lawyers working pro bono to show up to help people stuck in limbo vs the reaction to the shut down of the asylum app and cancelling of flights for the approved Afghans. But, the people in power to oppose what is happening are respoding. There have been a raft of legal challenges all across the country already, but legal briefs are boring so dont get the attention of a big public demonstration.
4 Likes
Oh, that’s a good point on the legal side. However, I also hear more and more despair that the legal side too is a dead end. I hope not.
In the meantime, I think it’s about personal responsibility. And slowly, I hope people emerge from the stupor and “resigned acceptance” and do their bit.
2 Likes
I don’t have large scale examples of taking a stand, apart from being at a gun control rally a few years ago and supporting our daughter in a student protest at her school (I saw the Principal over it, and defended my daughter).
More recently, in a very local situation, the KKK reared its ugly head here in a local high school. Credit to the moms group (obviously backed by many men, but the moms were most vocal) in shouting it down and getting the propaganda removed.
As a Christian person I routinely have conversations with other Christians about Israel, as the general American Christian view is mistaken and extreme, and people conflate three different Israel’s to suit - Old Covenant Israel, New Covenant Israel and modern nation state Israel, made even worse under the Netanyahu extremism.
I am friends with a local politician here who is a Christian. I appealed to him at a lunch meeting we had by making the case to welcome the stranger, which is Biblical teaching that is often overlooked in these parts. It culminates in the person of Jesus - Matthew 25:35, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
My wife and daughter advocated for a trans person when she was in high school, and to this day they are really good friends.
My son goes to the Pride marches to support his sister, and also to confront angry ‘Christians’ who seem very far away from what Jesus was like.
Our family ‘activism’ (we don’t see ourselves as that at all) is mostly through the relationships we have. We vote and do our civic duty, and I am open to joining marches as possible.
Edit:
I think in time a joined up, wider response to what Trump is doing will emerge. The Democrats are currently reeling from the defeat, and also need to have their own battle as to who they are, what they stand for, who will lead, and what the strategy will be to defeat Trump.
9 Likes
I think one of the lessons the Dems maybe correctly took from this election is “Trump bad. We’re not Trump” has limited value and they need to do much better at communicating who they are, and that needs a lot of introspection because that isn’t even clear to them.
If there is one thing you can rely on the Dems for though it is to take the wrong lesson from an experience. My concern is they internalize this too much to the point that they avoid taking on Trump publicly on the issues that are both morally and politically correct to do so. I suspect we are seeing a good amount of that right now in the lack of public opposition to his first week (fuck me, it hasnt even been a week yet)
5 Likes