Reminder that this represents over £200m of transfer fees.
How many international tournaments have been won in the last 2 decades by a side playing genuinely proactive football? With few exceptions that just iust isnt how international football is played anymore, even by the big teams. Teams win by creating a solid frame work and then hoping they have enough quality in attack to nick chances.
There is definitely room for this side to grow into a side that is braver with the ball and more able to meaningfully control a game with possession, and that is definitely something that was lacking last night. However, that is not an easy transition and its one that fails far more often than it succeeds. The main positive I see with this group is that the prospects of us doing that no longer seem centered around one or two atypically unenglish players. In years passed, the second a technically competent player like Foden made his first team debut all expectations for us being able to play creative football would fall on his shoulders. It feels we are finally producing players who can play this way and in 2 years time a side with the likes of Mason Mount, Foden and Bellingham will be that much older and more experienced.
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Curtis Jones soon to follow hopefully.
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Yep. Qatar may be a bit too early, but its another player who demonstrates the point. It’s not just that this generation are good and a bit different in style. It’s that there are enough of them that 1) they dont feel on an island when they get to the team and see everyone else playing a different brand of football, and 2) we’re not totally reliant on one player meaning we wont have things fall apart from a stylistic PoV when he’s not available or we cant be stopped playing that football by just taking one player out of the games.
England team hasn’t peaked yet. Semi final at World Cup, final at Euros. I think there’s more to come. Now, whether or not that means winning something is impossible to say, as that final step is so difficult. But England have every reason to believe they can be in the mix.
I watched the final and there was a sense that England played with the brakes on. I saw a lot of exciting talent on the bench and the team was mostly set up in a cautious and stifling sort of way, with way too many defensive minded players for my liking. Five defenders and two holding midfielders just seemed way too cautious.
As such it invited Italy onto us, and as the second half unfolded there only looked like one winner. Kane played so deep all game, he might as well have replaced Pickford. It would have been a big call but I’d have hooked him to give Italy a different problem. It seemed Southgate kept him on for the penalty shootout.
At that point it’s anyone’s guess what will happen. Donna Summer filled the goal. Pickford looked like a boy. Rashford, Sancho and Saka couldn’t score, and the rest is history.
Southgate should lick his wounds, sign a new deal, and go again.
Football management is a strange thing. He has no career to speak of - Boro and the U21? But the players respond to him, and he has them playing for each other. He doesn’t have an ego and doesn’t need to be the star, or the sergeant major, and his collegiate approach with the group seems to be working.
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He reminds me of a Jack Russell. Insecure in his diminutive stature (and tiny arms). Barking at his teammates at every opportunity, who ignore him due to their lack of respect for him. Compare how he filled the goal in the pens vs Donnarumma and he looks like a complete joke. Whether he is shouting in anger or in celebration he is one annoying, ugly looking SOB. And this is not just bitterness because he enjoys injuring Liverpool players. Its a big part of it but its not all of it.
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On Pickford, I also think he is a coward. On a couple of occasions he started to come, as an Italian player was arriving, and he just threw himself into the air - not quite in the reckless way he went into VVD - but in a similar way, only he turned his back to the ball and Italian player, like a coward.
I tell my kids team not to turn their back, but to close it down. Pickford wouldn’t pass that test.
Since I can’t stand him I will keep going. Two goals conceded at the Euros. First goal, free kick against Denmark, from miles away. The ball went into the middle of the goal, and Pickford threw himself into the air and arched his back, like it was for a photo shoot, and then his stumpy little arms couldn’t reach the ball. Alisson would have stayed in his feet for that one and been in perfect position, the only variable being whether he catches it or tips it over the bar, effortlessly, to be safe.
Second goal Pickford conceded was from the corner against Italy. Weak right hand. Just no strength as it collapsed at the wrist. Wasn’t as bad as the Denmark goal he conceded, but again, it was very saveable.
I think that is more about the way we played than the selection per se. Phillips is not really a holding player and more of a high energy destroyer so there is nothing about that which should have made him play so deep. Likewise with the FBs. A back 5 with 2 primarily defensive CMs can still be pretty aggressive as long as the one CMs and FB don’t get tempted into sitting as deep we did yesterday. This is an Italian defense that can be got at, and the one time we committed to attack with real purpose we scored.
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Yes, England were well organised and disciplined. Just no counter attack. they kept the same shape and perhaps going with a 10 and a 9 would have been better (say mount and Kane rather than persisting with 2 wide players (who were defending anyway).
Been saying after all England matches they need to do better at getting Kane involved in attacking situations.
England I feel should have done better in the 1st half exploiting the inability of Italy to mark up properly leaving the opposing wing wide open (like for Shaw’s goal). After that it’s hard to fault Englands tactics to defend, it was good up until Italy’s goal (Even if Italy had confiscated the ball).
What struck me is Italy starting with technical players that where physically out muscled by England. Then when the subs started Italy bulked up and level pegged it. (the physical game that is).
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Doesn’t sound as if he is 100% committed.
Similar to Belgium with it’s golden generation with Martinez this England team will never win anything under Southgate.
Would be a real shame because potentially this England squad has more talent then during the Gerrard years.
Well, in terms of attacking talent, I don’t think that there was a more talented team in the tournament, bar France. But I touched upon it earlier today: in other parts of the pitch, and especially in defence, England aren’t that great in terms of individual talent. They need some young players to break through. Trent at right back is a given, but a good goalie is needed, and at least one really good center back.
I see it as both style and personnel. He could have got more of an attacking tune out of the players he selected, definitely, and he could have selected a couple more to have a go. It was just too cautious, which frustrated no end, given the talent that wasn’t used.
I saw five defenders, two holding midfielders, a striker who was so deep he might as well have got the gloves from Pickford, an attacking midfielder in Mount, and Sterling, who had a go and had a good tournament.
Sometimes finalists are outmatched, and so they play a cagey game to try to nab the trophy.
In this instance, England were not outmatched, and I thought they could have win that one with a bit more belief in their attacking ability. Instead, the whole thing was unfulfilling, as they didn’t do as well as I think they would have, had they taken the brakes off a little.
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Don’t really want to pick at the bones of Southgate after last night…
However…!
He reminds me of someone with similar traits to Nat Phillips, in that he is limited at what he is supposed to do, but he does give it his all…!
GS is a wing man at best, hopefully to a more canny manager that can think on his feet as they patrol the technical area during the game as it unfolds (think Bielsa)… tweek here, tweek there, keep out guessing the opposition at every turn for the full 90minutes…
Not sure England are failing/struggling every time they come up against a better team, we only have to take a look at the talent available to them… we seem to struggle every time Southgate comes up against a better manager… of which, there are ohhhh soooo many!
Since the day I’m a Liverpool fan I’ve always wanted England to win tournaments if Germany can not do it.
This year was different but that started even before the Round of 16 game.
No Liverpool players involved. Hendo just a sub.
Southgate sets up for ugly football. Not many likable players in the squad but tons of talent tbh.
England turned into the least likeable nation after the knock-out stage IMO and that wasn’t even because of the players.
Two ugly 1-0 wins in group stage. National crisis after the goalless draw against Scotland.
Knowing this (+ booing their own players for kneeling) and after beating a shambolic german team it went out of control.
Suddenly IT WAS COMING HOME.
But looking at the so far results, and performances and the possible upcoming games should have kept everybody on the realistic. No chance England would win this.
Delusional and arrogant from pundits and fans.
Kind of funny that before the Germany game it was reported England are practicing penalties in almost every session since Southgate came in and then losing the final on penalties.
- ugly football
- booing own players for kneeling
- the whole it’s coming home movement
- Southgate talking about WW2
- booing opponents national anthems
- fans fighting each other at home
- fans fighting police and stewards at home
- fans breaking into their national stadium in their most important game (ever).
- racism towards Saka, Rashford and Sancho
…
England did not really showed its best side to the world in the last few weeks.
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I want to tell you one last thing about … “it’s coming home” because you all don’t seem to get it and how it was received by people everywhere.
If you say … yes, but the lyrics etc. i hear you but you simply assume that millions of people, all over the world, who are sitting at home in front of the TVs are all able to speak English and everyone knows and understands the lyrics of this song as well. But that’s not how the world works in real life!
People only hear what is sung in the stadium. That is the point.
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There are 2 differences between the teams of previous generation and the current one.
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The previous ones were just a pool of individuals. This one has a togetherness in it. Southgate has created a team spirit.
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There was no proper play style in the previous ones. They were just - put the players on the pitch and let them play however they like. Southgate has got a play style - even though it’s a fully defensive one.
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Why should people figure it out? It’s as i’ve said, please don’t assume that everyone speaks English, they just don’t know or don’t understand the lyrics, and I think they don’t have to. People listened to the crowd, heard this and the ongoing booing over and over again. It’s not really complicated to see why it has now “kind of ruined your reputation”.