So the great football nation England with their best pool of (attacking) talent ever are going to do one better at the next tournament by playing like Greece in 2004 or Italy in 2006?
Said it in another thread - England might have reached the final but they were not the second best team in the tournament (probably not even the third or fourth). Their road to the final was a fluke (just like ManU Fans are thinking Harry Maguire is a good defender).
All the stuff off the pitch was embarrassing for England as we showed ourselves to the world. Booing the knee, which is a gesture against racism, storming into the stadium, racism against our own players, fighting⌠all that crap makes us look so backwards. Yes, itâs a minority, but itâs ridiculous that we arenât beyond this by now.
Itâs partly why, as an Englishman, albeit one who has lived out of the country for over a decade now, I am not nearly as sad when England lose as I am when Liverpool do.
Itâs my home country, and I do want them to do well. But a lot of what is attached to the England team makes it so hard to love, and I feel no affinity with that stuff at all.
For me it was kind of ridiculous to see how English fans went from 'couldnât care less about international footballâ and our English Liverpool fans from âweâre scouse not English - couldnât care less about international footballâ to ITâS COMING HOME in those 11 days after the whole nation felt embarrassed by the 0-0 against Scotland.
I mean after beating Germany and the Netherlands crashing out it was kind of clear England might make the final but should have known a team like France, Belgium, Spain or Italy will wait in the final. More experienced / mature teams. Current World Cup winners. Former (and not so long ago) European and World Cup winners. Nr. 1 ranked team in the world. Teams that are playing better football than England did.
Some modesty / humility / humbleness would have been appropriate but the nation and the pundits went nuts (combined with all the other stuff) building up even more pressure - no chance this England team would have been able to cope with.
Instead Southgate jumps on the train and talks about World War while some fans were booing during other nations anthems and booing while English internationals were taking a knee.
In the end not only a final was lost (thatâs just football - a game which is not important) but the whole world saw English fans fighting each other at London. Fighting Stewards and Police. Storming their own national stadium. But most importantly racially abused three kids of their own.
I know itâs minority but trust me at the moment nobody is talking about Orban and Hungary in the news and in social media.
Some newspapers wrote that the off pitch stuff might have killed Englandâs chances of being the World Cup host for 2030 (they seemed to be favorites before).
Why should they?
Players are given an allocation of tickets they can give to family and friends - doesnât give anyone else the right to illegally enter the stadium and take those seats
I really donât understand those points. Bobby Robson set out some great tactics and football as did Venables. iâm not having it.
Iâd add that this England squad had a solid and collective defense, Maguire, Stones, Walker and Rice however the rest were just individuals. If there was such a team spirit why was it Kane hardly got involved?
Pickford was a raving lunatic living in his own shell.
Also, despite the technical ability of this squad, it was more a typical English squad with typical tactics than we normally see. Possession was based on getting the ball out wide to fast wingers and putting in crosses (low and hard). what is different about that?
Maybe what your talking about is the narrative however what we saw on the pitch didnât hold that up!
Dude I donât know how long youâve been a Liverpool fan, but Itâs coming home has been part and parcel of every tournament since 96. They were singing it in the streets after the 5-1 drubbing of Germany by Liverpool and that was just a qualifier. It is not something that suddenly happened by any means.
Even though we all know World in Motion is by far the superior song, 3 Lions taps into the mood of the nation in a way that you realise even if you donât known that you know - Itâs true that most people donât give a shit about the national team most of the time but manage to galvanize to a point where they believe they might win something. And you know what? They nearly did.
The racist fans yes, the boring football yes, I just donât get why after 25 years people are suddenly going after the song. Just like YNWA itâs a song about belief and getting behind the team. Just more dumbed down and catchier.
Nobody would tell Liverpool fans at half time at Athens not to sing YNWA because they probaby wouldnât win, and it might have been intimidating for fans who couldnât understand the lyrics 
Again I urge people to read this article because these fellow countrymen get it:
Thatâs right. Liverpool players also receive tickets for home matches, for family and friends, but nobody complains about that do they?
The team has more sense than before, they can flip their way and their formations also. It will also depend on availability and new players improving/reaching new levels. Especially in midfield Iâd say. At the moment, they canât really do to Italy what Spain did to them. Englandâs central midfield is not of that style or quality. But in this tournament, they went for a more solid approach and it worked. Balague said that the plan long term is to slowly add more control in possession to the foundation off the ball they built. Itâs difficult at international level, examples like what Spain did in 08-12 are damn rare in football history. Like I say, mentally after this, it will be tough. A tough job became even more difficult. But in terms of footballing things, Iâd say theyâre in a good place, a lot of young players or players who will still be available. England have made progress. Not won anything yet, but got much closer to trophies in their last 2 major tournaments (3 with the Nations League). I know itâs difficult for impatient people to keep hearing this âweâre on a good way, but still need to improve a few thingsâ. The first part actually wasnât the case for a long time. They had individually much better teams than this one, but lacked sense and cohesion from back to front. The WC is coming very soon, Iâd say stick with Southgate for at least another tournament. Let them work and try and reach another little level.
Most talented, maybe yeah. Ever? Wouldnât go that far, I canât know. The 00âs team was much more complete all over the park. Those were not only talented, they were genuine top quality proven winners at club level. The goalkeeper was maybe even then a little question mark. Go back to 2018 and people just gave up on any expectactions from England. There are reasons for it. This side can generate excitement with young and mainly offensive players. But they canât play everyone. It still needs more in some key areas. So I give Southgate the credit for pulling out a lot of what he has in the last 3 tournaments.
Well⌠the fans thing is pretty vague, different, etc. Especially today where, I donât know, we also judge fans behaviour by using forums, Twitter, comments sections (which I never read), etc.
You do realize that there are plenty of different kind of fans. And opinions change constantly. There must be a good % of fans in Liverpool or the north that are supporting England, though of course, maybe not so much like in some other places. I think England always had a good portion of constant supporting fans. More people jump on that bandwagon if it looks like England are looking better than in a lot of other tournaments and Iâm fine with it. Itâs just natural.
And the Itâs Coming Home thing is really not problematic. We have to separate fans, players & staff and media. Fans get excited, so what. Itâs a good song (much better than the crap tournament songs Croatia are making a lot of the time) that survived through the years. Itâs because itâs England that is probably the problem outside of England. Confusing off the pitch stuff (political, historical, personal experiences, stereotypes, you name it) with footballing stuff. And then also confusing fanâs excitement (which happens literally everywhere, and I donât mean fighting each other, but just enjoying, having a main song and thinking your team is the best in the world, no matter how unrealistic it is) with arrogancy from the players & staff (didnât see it) and media (itâs huge, I donât follow crap sites, I believe there maybe was some arrogant parts in that section).
That has much more to do that the English are outside of England not really likeable. I understand to some extent that if thatâs the case. But can we stick to football sometimes and separate the two. Iâd go on the opposite and actually say that this England team found a way of looking like a team on the pitch, good togetherness, normal quotes, making progress in performances and results. England are one of the most crazy football nations. Itâs easy to understand if fans got excited in the last two big tournaments. I donât think itâs the fansâ task to watch out thinking about the team. Itâs the opposite, itâs actually not all pressure, but positive vibes. They gave the England team a good feeling. Sure, the pressure is there because itâs the blame of England teams for the last half a decade that they didnât win anything. What can the players & staff do apart from keeping their heads down and do what they can, which I think they are under Southgate.
What did Southgate say about WWII? I missed that.
I can certainly remember it being played regularly in Germany, including the 98 version with the German mullet Kuntz squad music video. I think it even made it into the charts. Granted not everyone understood the lyrics, but a lot of people did. Maybe those were just more relaxed times in general.
I saw the same behaviour, minus the off field stuff, in 2004 when Greece won the Euro. The conceit and arrogance reached frenzy levels and it got so bad that by the semifinals I was actively rooting against them. When Greece did win the cup, the whole country had a meltdown and went into an Ancient Greek inspired delirium.
Itâs understandable up to a point especially when you have had zero success at national or club level but when it comes to England fans who enjoy the best league and support some of the most successful clubs in the world, losing their mind at the sight of their national team doing well seems a bit over the top.
Although waiting 55 years for another title can have a detrimental effect on anyone.
Some times up to 12 complimentary tickets each.
âWhen youâre gonna believe us
Weâre gonna win the leagueâ
Itâs what football fans do.
Given Italy are the third most successful team in International football history, why should we be too good to follow their path (even if I disagree with you that Lippi was overly defensive)?
I think one thing we can say though is that our prospects of hosting a tournament anytime soon has now gone up in smoke. Itâs been clear the international community has a bit of a thing about not wanting to give us one, and the way we have gone about trying to win the hosting rights has been a bit tasteful at time, living up to the arguments for why the rest of the world doesnât want to vote for us.
In that context, a lot of people viewed us getting the primary hosting of this tournament as a way to give us our turn without giving us our turn. It was already an uphill climb and I think the conduct of the fans and the utter failure of stadium management to deal with it probably put a fork in those prospects for a generation.
I donât know about the international community part, but I can only say that the stadium management was rather appalling. Itâs one thing to have hooligans on the streets, I think itâs safe to say that most countries have those. But the inadequate dealing with them I think, like you have said, put a fork in it.
âPrevious generationâ to me sounds like @TheElusive19th was refering to the Gerard Lampard Scholes era and not any before that or it would be âprevious generationsâ
feel free to correct my interpretations tho
I think it was 2006 that was the first big push the FA made and weâve made maybe 3 additional attempts since then. Every time we act hard done by the refusal of everyone to fall in line and give us what we want, and what seem entitled to be given.
Remember, that a big part of the Suarez-Evra case was to bolster our argument that you cannot give a world cup to Russia because theyâre racist and watch how not racist we are.
What on earth are you on about here?
Some of us donât care about international footy and donât care for England, like me and a lot of my mates or people I work with. I wasnât bothered at any stage and laughed when it was United players missing the penalties.
Other Liverpool fans support England and havenât said otherwise.
Iâm really not sure you know what youâre talking about.