England National Team

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807

England, pah!

First game, looked good. Started to have some hope.
Second game, ah, there it is. That’s the turgid England I’ve grown accustomed to over several decades now. Household names throughout the team. Playing with lots of fear, no ideas, and very much less than the sum of its parts. There was plenty on the bench to improve it, if the manager was more daring.

I’m an Englishman so I want them to do as well as possible, but strangely, after that display against America, I almost want them to fall flat on their asses now.

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808

Kind of think yeah it’s probably not the worst idea to play like that, concern is it’s typical Southgate and we saw how it fell flat last summer.

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809

Did not see the game yesterday but I can imagine what kind of game it was.

Englands results in last years EUROs group stage

1-0 win against Croatia
0-0 against Scotland
1-0 win against Czech Rep

It’s Southgates football. Play it safe. Don’t play entertaining.

Minimalistic if you’re trying to be nice/positive but imo he is really limited. Wouldn’t last a full season at any PL team.

Real shame because there is some real quality in that squad.

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810

Spain’s results at WC10:

0-1 Switzerland
2-0 Honduras
2-1 Chile
1-0 Portugal
1-0 Paraguay
1-0 Germany
1-0 Netherlands

…

Not saying this England side are that Spain, who were bloody brilliant what they did in the period between 2008 and 2012. But there you go, even arguably one of the best national sides ever (in terms of dominance, consistency and playing style) won only 1 game with a 2 goals difference (and some very late winners). If you only looked at results, you could think we’re talking about Greece 04.

England got to a WC semi, Nations League (okay, lesser competition) semi, Euro final (where they stopped playing too early, still got to a few kicks away from winning it).

Overall, they’re doing a pretty good job and are doing what England failed to do for not only years, but decades. And with possibly better (more experienced in winning at club level) individuals at certain periods.

Yeah, some games have been more difficult, but it’s also a mark of a team that commands more respect (not like it isn’t usually, we see that almost everyone are motivated to play England) than before. I’d say overall it’s still been good football more often than not.

I remember much worse England sides when you speak about the need to play as a team and results at the end of the day.

Is Southgate the man who will land a big trophy? Nobody knows, he doesn’t have to do it to be a success in getting England closer in my view.

If we want to “mock” an England manager, go back and remember what they looked like under McClaren par example.

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811

The counter argument to that is Spain didn’t go into the world cup with no wins in 6 games having been beaten by the power house of Euro football Hungry twice.

812

Spain had their good share of struggles before winning their first big one in 08.

Hungary are surprising other teams as well, not only England this time. It was a bad run of games, they were not alone in that. France, Germany, etc.

It’s international football, shit happens everywhere from time to time. Coaches have little time to work with their squads.

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813

Because against any decent team or with anything on the line Southgate would rather not lose than win. It’s a weak as fuck losers mentality and won’t win anything.

He has one the best squads in world football, yet makes them look inept.

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814

Solution for England is quite simple: quit behaving institutionally xenophobic and hire a properly good foreign manager. Yes, national team football is different to club football but no one can convince me that Klopp or Guardiola wouldn’t make the current crop of English players one of regular favourites for WC and EC titles. This is the most balanced selection they’ve had since I started watching football, imagine if they had proper guidance both on and off the pitch.

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815

Southgate shouldn’t get a pass because he doesn’t suck as badly as McClaren who had worse players at his disposal.

Winning the big one is a matter of chance, but this team should be performing better regardless.

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816

Eh, that hasn’t exactly worked in the past either, and very few top foreign managers want to work at international level.

Belgium gave their greatest crop of players to the man we rejected for Brendan Rodgers.

That being said, Southgate is a boring, cowardly manager. To use 6 attacking players and none of them being Foden sums it up, he doesn’t know how to use what he has at his disposal. Ben White has probably been the best English defender this season and he isn’t getting a look in either. Southgate would rather trust mediocre players than figure out a way to get the best players in the side.

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817

He’s also a complete and utter lier. Goes on about form then picks Shaw and Maguire. He has his favourites, and they are typically boring safety first footballers… Maguire is basically picked because he might grab a goal from a corner… Which was our only offensive tactical outlet in the Euros.

Not playing Trent, Foden and White as you say is just terrible management, but you know why, he doesn’t have a clue how to use them.

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818

They’re pretty good (or better to say talented), but not that good in my opinion.

And I think Southgate has done a lot of that already, made them work as a unit, started making more decisions on merit, got some players working well, who are struggling at clubs, etc. Is there someone better out there who would takeover? Possibly, but I think England are doing pretty well lately and some reactions are over the top.

Sure, you have finished product players/winners like Sterling and Kane, but the rest is nothing so special that we haven’t seen many times at national sides who just didn’t get to the end. A “talented generation” that never produced. Don’t we hear that all the time?

Give them a better choice in central midfield and they possibly put Croatia to bed in 2018 and go all the way. A trio of Henderson, Alli and Lingard? Let’s be real, it was good, but not that good. Euro 2021 I agree, their tactics after going 1 up were too negative too early.

It gets heavy attention because it’s England and most players play in the PL.

There are not such guarantees in football either. Capello was one example, his England team was mainly good (probably with more sense than Eriksson’s), but in the end also not quite good enough to win anything.

Some of the best coaches in the game most probably won’t go into international management because it’s exactly that, not attractive enough and not enough time to work.

What should’ve France done with someone like Deschamps after losing to Portugal at their home soil in 2016? Look at their pool of talent and look at how they play all these years under Didier. Played pretty pragmatic, defensive full backs, Blaise Matuidi as the left winger. Got them to the end. Not bad.

When it’s someone foreign, it’s not good. When it’s someone local, it’s not good either. When they play 4-4-2 with all the best individuals in the team and they think that’s it, it’s not good (although at the start it’s always either great or crap, really). When they make some unpopular decisions, try something different, it actually improves results, it’s not good again.

I don’t know what England football public expects. In this way, nobody will ever be good enough for a national team that won 1 major competition! So, only winners are “allowed”. And I’d bet that the next manager who manages that very possibly won’t be of the calibre of Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp.

819

This is just not true, Maguire doesn’t even start for Utd is Southgates first name on the teamsheet… Over players like White who have been great this season. He is literally the opposite of what you say, he has his favourites and doesn’t deviate from them barring injury.

820

For a football nation to have a bigger improvement, it’s gonna take more than 5-6 years of Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp in the domestic league.

It goes slow at that level. I see better stuff from England national selections when I see them. Room for improvement for sure, but better than before surely.

821

It cannot be true 100%.

Look at national sides and what players they pick. Are those all who play the best at their clubs? Nope, almost never. Because it’s impossible and also highly subjective.

Maguire is a case where I agree, it’s come to a point when I’d really think if it makes sense to continue with him. So far, he’s been good for England.

When coaches have the time they have, they need to have a core that is not changing with every international break and every game.

That is really nothing different than the rest. We can talk of course about specific cases/players.

822

It is because the evidence is there. Southgate has his favourites, who play irrespective of club form, and this is compounded because he then says in public he picks based on form…

Another case - Phillips, how can he be picked based on form? He’s been injured 4 months…

Southgate is an extremly limited manager, a great yes man but his entire coaching career is failures.

I’ve yet to see any sort of actual tactical plan bar defensive shape, he has no idea how to change a game.

823

I have no interest in England or Southgate and have no intention of watching any of this WC because of where it is being played, and how the corruption within FIFA has allowed it to happen, but I do have an interest in football or anything LFC related… Which is why it makes me feel sick to my stomach when a non-entity muti-millionaire of a manager such as Southall, in being given the opportunity of his footballing lifetime to manage the national team, plays a dire safety-first approach for what appears to be no other reason than cling onto and salvage his own arrogance that he is a capable manager. He has an easier task than most other national managers in so much that his squad of multi-talented footballers play week in week out in the same condensed, most competitive league in the world of blood and thunder football most weeks… They are trained daily at their clubs by professional people good at their trade… Yet, he gets them, and turns all these advantages into dog-shit football, because of dog-shit tactics and lack of instilling personal inspiration into these same players… Football is for the fans, why not give them what they crave and attack attack and attack these other nations on the pitch…
He has no right as a national team manager to turn the nations team into a championship rated side going through the motions

824

Love the over reaction. How dare England draw to a very well drilled USA team, when they didn’t need to win. Southgate out. Bring back the glory days of Hodgson or Capello…

Best England side for 30 years, just enjoy it.

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825

It’s really incredible.

You get whole scientific pieces and general consensus (but about 15-20 years later though) between media, ex-football people, fans and players from those past times who admit that England weren’t set up properly under the Golden Generation.

Now, you turn on MOTD or go to a pub or an England forum (if that even exists!) and see calls for a midfield of, I don’t know, Declan Rice with people like Mason Mount, Phil Foden and James Maddison as #8’s. Play 4-3-3 (because it’s… modern?), give them all freedom, have as many x factor players on the pitch as possible. And that’s it?

I remember a game, I think it was exactly against Hungary at home or something, when they played Mount deeper. Wasn’t good at all. Is that the reason never to try him again in that position? No it’s not, but surely if those people are watching England closely, they see what usually works and what usually doesn’t.

It would be the same mistakes as in 00’s. Even worse, because Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes were actually proper central midfielders at that time. A lot of these are not, plus they still have things to prove. Could they be in the future? Maybe, nobody knows.

I wonder if someone in 00’s would’ve taken a case like Kalvin Phillips, gave him the chance to start and keep his place throughout the tournament, if he merited, like he did.

We’re not really talking about Xabi Alonso, Sergi Busquets, Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta.

This lot and new talents are good. Could they play better? Yeah, maybe a bit better at times. Much, much better? I really don’t think so. There are moments when Gareth deserves criticism, but overall it’s gone too radical from the love in 2018 to some of these comments 4 years later.

It takes time, especially with England. The only two football nations that are working almost like club sides are probably Spain and Germany. And even they have problems from tournament to tournament.

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826

Zoran you’re just creating strawmen arguments.

Foden’s England’s best attacking player and he could easily fit into the current set up, no need for ‘modern’ obsessions to be pandered to or whatever it is you’re going on about.

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