England National Team

At least Southgate gets a easy ride for failure. :no_mouth::no_mouth:

Probably because his failure has been better than previous failures :innocent:

In my opinion, England should take heart from that performance (their World Cup appearance in general). I’m not the biggest fan of Southgate the manager but it was refreshing seeing him try to take the game to reigning world champions. This England selection probably doesn’t have a lot of tactically complete players compared to France or Croatia, so playing on the front foot does seem like playing to their strengths to me.

There are three obvious issues for this selection, though: finding suitable cover and long-term replacement for Kane, the same for Henderson (it took Southgate quite a while to recognise Hendo’s true worth) and a suitable partner for Stones of the non-Maguire variety. Kane is a unlikeable figure but his game intelligence is off the charts, in my opinion, and he’d improve any side in the world, especially with his link-up play and finishing - Wilson could offer those to a certain degree but he’s older than Kane and is very susceptible to injuries.

Ben White has played all his football for Arsenal this season as RB because he cannot get a game at CB. Walker is a FB.

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I actually watched the game yesterday, against my qualms it must be said. Now I may be accused of bias about England and Southgate by some as I have made known my disdain about both in the past however, I will say this is what I think is my unbiased my opinion about what I saw last night:

  1. I think they played well. Certainly better than I expected and I was much more certain of a France domination going into the game so I was surprised. That said, I think they were toothless to a large extent. I wasn’t really thinking that they would score any minute now for all that they had France playing on the counter for the most part. I think they’re getting plaudits for being ā€˜plucky’ which, to me, is rather small time. They had two pens but France had the better chances.

  2. The ref was very definitely pretty shit. He even looked shit. All in all, the decisions on the pitch looked to be in favor of France however I do feel VAR got the foul on Kane right. Just outside the box to my eye and with no definitive way to say it was even on the line with 100% clarity then it was the right call.VAR can’t then call a foul as its not their remit but how the fuck it wasn’t given as a foul on the edge of the area by the on field officials is beyond me. Having said all that, I don’t think the ref influenced the end result with any blatantly incorrect decision that would have resulted in a goal for England and both France goals were clean as a whistle so… ja, not really a tough break as tough breaks go. Considering the howlers we as Liverpool fans have been forced to endure, last night was pretty mild by comparison.

  3. If I were to describe England as a colour it’s a drab beige intermixed with a dirty grey. Completely forgettable and drab. Pity, I know a lot is made about how the middle of defence and gk is poor so the rest of the team has to be drab and functional to compensate but I’m still not buying that. There are some of the best attacking talents in the league playing for top teams who have won loads of silverware and been integral in doing so. Nobody can tell me that there isn’t a way to find some sort of cohesion between them and allow them to paint another colour besides a butt fucking ugly one.

In my book, England have just done as everyone would have expected them to do before the tournament started. It’s not Southgate’s, nor the players’ fault. Contrarily to Brazil or Portugal, who clearly underachieved this time around, they are exactly where you’d expect them to be.

Everything else which has been said and written about them was and still is a storm in an English teacup. Business as usual.

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That is also overly simplistic.

Says the guy whose team has benefited mightily from Luka Modric for years.

England beat Iran, Wales and Senegal sans Mane.

Couldn’t beat the USA or France.

They might not have the absolute best squad but they’re not that far off. When discussing England it’s like many people forget that teams are allowed to overachieve, as Croatia keep doing and as Morocco are doing. England seem incapable of overachieving, probably because they’re led by donkeys like Southgate and Kane.

A crying shame, it really is.

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Except the piece reads like it was written before the game. I’d imagine two of the more popular theories of the case for why we’d lose would have been ā€œtoo cautious a midfield,ā€ with Hendo most likely to have been targeted as the cause, and ā€œcreative players too isolatedā€, but I dont think either of those is a reasonable thing to have taken from yesterday’s game. Hendo was IMO the best of our midfield three and was so in all areas of the game, even in his use of the ball. Three or four separate times he played an incisive ball into Saka in a threatening position and the fact we didnt score from any of them is not due to Hendo being a midfield hand break. Likewise with Foden - he was not as involved in the first half when the game was a bit more cagey, but grew into the game and, as he is from the same position for city, found himself involved all over the pitch and causing real problems for France in the second half.

Scoring goals in open play at this level of international play is hard and often requires a bit of help from the opposition, The main difference between the teams yesterday was that we gave France more of that help than they gave us. That’s not because they were more creative, but because they were less hamstrung with defensive weak links. I guess it’s easier to pretend though that the issue is one that is solved by [insert criticism of the manager] rather than trying to address why we’ve had a generational gap of talent in positions we’ve historically had a conveyor belt of. Germany have responded to their failure by questioning whether their project restart has produced a generation of technical sound players but ones who have had the flair coached out of them. The improvement in player development in england over the past 15 years has been astounding, but maybe we should be asking some of the same questions about what gaps it is resulting in with the players we produce.

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Indeed, teams can overachieve here and then. That’s what England did during the last Euros btw, with Southgate in charge… :wink:

But in terms of quality on the pitch, Croatia are really superior to England imo, and they have proved it time and again at major tournaments (an almost incredible fact when considering the size of that country).

Croatia haven’t got a better squad than England. They are a more cohesive, more spirited side, hence the relative overachievement considering individual quality.

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England have played Croatia in 3 competitive games since the loss in the world cup and have 2 wins and a draw in those games. In the second of those tournaments England went on to the final while Croatia were knocked out in the first KO round having ā€œlost to every good side they played.ā€

Croatia are a phenomenal story given the size of the country and have some historic wins over England, but the problem with stories like this of ā€œoverachieversā€ is people tend to forget the games where the lose as expected, as they have done plenty of times to England over the recent years.

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Some managers are better at international than club football.

I think Southgate is one, tried explaining this elsewhere but it wasn’t accepted. It was par for England that result. Could have been better and France were not great. I can seen them being stifled especially if Giroud wakes up very sore this morning.

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Those losses don’t detract from the fact Croatia made it to the world cup final and now the world cup semi final in 4 years. That is overachivement considering the level of quality in the squad whichever way you want to cut it.

One of their back 4 plays for Celtic, one plays for Stuttgart, one is 20 and the other is Lovren.

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I wouldn’t point at one match, though I would mention England failed to unlock a very unlockable U.S. team. I didn’t post the article because I think it’s spot on correct, but because it’s an interesting way to look at the England situation. The football sides that have always most impressed me have an imperious playmaking midfielder. The French team with Zidane in midfield is my best example, but I’d put Croatia as another excellent example. There’s no doubt who’s running the show.

My earliest days watching England were when Gerrard and Lampard both played in midfield. Two great players with different styles, and the criticism I heard at the time was how England failed to find a way to use them both effectively. Rightly or wrongly, don’t know if it’s true.

Henderson had a fine match yesterday, but France mostly handled passes toward their area. All the key threats (save the pass to Kane which saw him in alone), came from dribbles into the penalty area, from Saka or Kane attempting to force the issue themselves.

Agreed :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I was disagreeing with his claim that their recent tournament success is based on having a better group of players.

Well I didn’t read it properly then obviously