England National Team

Pitchside - Football Forum
1382

This is a beautiful video and poignant song, i remember that time we lost on the penalties twice in two tournaments in 1990 and 1996. We (the nation) were all down and depressed. That time during the tournament, we fans were together as a nation, no matter where our origins, we were England fans, willing our team to win. Even though we lost, they were good times for us England fans.

I hope Jude blocks all the outside noise and heed the lyrics, ‘dont carry the world on your shoulders’. At least Jude is mature beyond his 20 years and it will not effect him. He is a very down to earth youngster, with his tight-knit family who keep him grounded.

Our press/media are horrible when we lose key matches, targeting the youngsters, especially those who missed the penalties.

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1383

This is a batshit crazy video. Lyrics are literally ‘hey Jude, don’t carry the world upon your shoulders’, then they literally put all the weight on his shoulders to end however many years of hurt.

Every 2 years- ‘football’s coming home, we’ve got the best players, it’s our time’… bottle it. Repeat.

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1384

https://www.reddit.com/r/okmatewanker/comments/1dfm9nm/big_calves_merchant/

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1385
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1386

We make lots of fun about players but they are still on a very high level. Gallagher is better than Andrich or Emre Can / Ollie Watkins better than Füllkrüg.

In international tournaments it’s kind of easy. A good manager can get very far with a shit team and a bad manager will make the best squad look shit.

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1387

Markus Babbel:
‘The football in this tournament is on a world class level - as long as England are not involved’

:joy:

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1388

https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1805977442395324797
Baby on the way, i`ve just read he already has 2 kids and his 3th is about to be delivered now.
wow he looks so young

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1389

Ok, so what is wrong with the England team?

I reject the idea that the players aren’t good enough - the status of the Prem over rates our domestic players and Kane and Bellingham have benefited from playing for dominant sides in their leagues. Kane and Bellingham established themselves in the england side before moving to dominant sides, and even well performing sides like Germany and Spain are relying in players who either have struggled in the Prem or wouldn’t get attention from the league’s big sides.

I think a lot can be explained by the basic answer that Southgate has limited ideas about how to play and is currently faced with a group whose “best” players don’t naturally compliment each other and don’t suit his more natural conservative counter attacking ideas he’s relied on in previous tournaments.

I think the question then is, why is he picking such a mismatched selection? Part of the answer is again Southgate, but manager after manager has succumbed to this tendency, and I think the toxicity if our press the way they pick their favourite players and condemn managers who dont kowtow to their demands is the core rot.

Sven came in and initially DGAF. Stevie pulling out of the squad late on gave him more room to put the unfancied Butt at the base of the midfield, but look at the team he primarily played in Japan and SK. A proper DM to give the team shape and faciltate Scholes doing what he needed to do. Trevor Sinclair LM who was limited but gave the team shape. Heskey up top despite there being much more support for the claims of Cole, Sheringham and even a resurgent Shearer. Then look at what he turned into. By 06 he was phoning it in and repeatedly picking hopelessly unbalanced teams that had already shown it couldn’t play together, but had come to understand he was going to get slated for whatever he did and so it was easier to just take the money and give the press what they wanted. Capello felt like he never even tried.

When Southgate came into this job things were so negative there were barely any favourites for the press to get behind. His side in 2016 was incredibly uninspiring, but he was able to pick players who were on form and fit a style and they executed a game plan, albeit a simple one. Over time they’ve increasingly starting dictating what he should do and we’ve ended up with a side that looks more like a fantasy football team than one that was put together with a coherent idea of how to approach the game. There are things he could do with this group to get them on the same page, but it requires picking unfancied players and dropping at least of players the press would give him hell for not picking.

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1390

I hear that the entitled English fans threw their cups of beer at Southgate after the match, despite of them finishing first of the group, with three clean sheets and five points. :see_no_evil:

Will they ever learn? For me, they are the worst bunch at this tournament: aggressive, even more aggressive when drunk (often), insulting, entitled and entirely without joy. What is even the point of them being in Germany?

Honestly, they can fuck off as far as I’m concerned.

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1391

Southgate aside, if they really, as some claim, have about 5-6 players who have legitimate claims to be the best in the world on their position, that would put them in an absolutely elite and extremely small club of the best national teams of all time in terms of player material. Yet this absolutely elite team has (so far) hardly been able to produce a few moments of individual brilliance - I’m not even talking about goals. A lot of it might be the manager, the setup, tactics and player choices - but that isn’t enough imo. Maybe they can show some of it in the next matches, the way the tournament is shaping up they might get a relatively easy road to the final.

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1392

I guess Kyle Walker could potentially be fucking off at any moment then? Better keep on the right side of Trent, Gareth.

1393

Yeah, I’d agree that sort of claim is over the top.

I am genuinely sympathetic to non-English people being tired at the over hyping of our players, but there are 7 or 8 players in this group who are consistent performers and important players for elite clubs (and Arsenal)*. I think that is comparable with most of the best sides in the tournament, and even Spain and Germany are having to fill out 2 or 3 positions with players that fans back home will question how that is best they have.

*Stones, Walker(?), Trent, Rice, Saka, Foden, Jude, Kane

I think France are the only team stacked from top to bottom and their struggles to find coherence I think point to the problem this England team are having - its better in this environment (players thrown together periodically for short periods) to have decent players who compliment each other than a good collection of good players who do not.

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1394

Nah, that really is more or less the best we have on those positions.
I’m still somewhat skeptical with regards to Germany. Nagelsmann is sort of an anti-Southgate, I think his tactical approach is extremely risky or courageous for a national team. Which is cool, just not sure it’s successful in the end.

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1395

Why is the England team less than the sum of its parts?

The biggest part of the answer is Southgate. He is a Championship coach with upper Prem players.

Another part of the answer is time. The group doesn’t have enough time together to work out detailed patterns of play and be coached more/better (not that Southgate could do this last part). Mind you, all other international footballers have the same time restriction, as the bulk of their work is playing for their club side.

Another part of the answer is tiredness. I think there is a level or two more that the England team could find, but they are jaded after a long season. Again, other leagues have that too, though most probably not quite to the extent of a hard Prem season.

Another part of the answer is balance. A couple of top stars need to be culled to find better balance. I put up a provocative team the other day and Southgate will never do it:

Pickford
Trent Guehi Stones Gomez
Rice Mainoo
Saka Palmer Foden
Watkins

Two huge calls.

Bellingham? Brilliant player. At his forte arriving from deep to finish it off. Been doing it all season for Real Madrid. But his feet aren’t as good as the three behind Watkins, and in tight spaces he has tried to dribble and come unstuck several times this tourney. There’s also a certain deference starting to emerge, and I’d rather remove an ace player to try to find a better team.

Kane? Big call, as he is a better striker than Watkins, except for pace. Kane drops deep and it adds to the bunching up of the whole thing. There’s also no prospect for a ball over the top, or a through ball to run on to, as he doesn’t have the pace to stretch it.

I made a couple of changes in the defense too. Trent comes in. His quality on the ball is too high to be excluded, although in a packed midfield with everyone dropping in there to get on the ball, he can’t shine. So he can do his stuff at right back, and even invert and step into midfield from that starting position.

It means another central defender in the backline, to give solidity, and Gomez has had a very good season at Liverpool, showing great versatility too.

I am 100% certain it will never be tried, but the thinking is to remove a couple of pieces of ‘stardust’ to allow a more functional/balanced team to emerge, especially given the limitations of Southgate’s coaching to get a tune out of a team of mostly thoroughbreds.

It would look like a step back, but I’m convinced a better team would emerge.

1396

I was under the impression that Southgate did experiment with 3 at the back and did fairly well.

Wonder why he changed back to 4.

1397

He certainly hasn’t helped himself taking an injured attacking left back and two right footed alternatives who play the role more defensively.

1398

He really tried to give Chilwell an opportunity, but his performances were just terrible. 12 months ago knowing this was a weak spot you would have hoped that Lewis Hall would get more of a chance at Newcastle, but with him getting so few games there arent too many other options. That just international and it’s about how you accommodate or hide those weakenesses. Southgate chose a player to play in front of him whose heat mat will show him closer to Rice and Saka than on the LW meaning we’ve abandoned about 1/3 of the pitch

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1399

Honestly think Stones, Saka, Walker are not the quality players most English supporters think they really are.

The hype surrounding Saka is totally misplaced, he is very ordinary by the standards we set for great players. Stones wouldn’t be in most top squads and Walker is at his best when refs are cool with his shithousery. He knows his sly little fouls will be pulled up at this level. Foden is a step above Saka, but he is far from the world class player everyone thinks he is. But he still has potential.

England have Kane, Bellingham and Trent as contenders to be in other top teams, such as Spain, France or Germany. Maybe Rice as well if you find the best balance in midfield. He could play for France in the Kante role for example.

But the biggest question surrounding England is Southgate, an his his pure inability to get the best from his team. The media wanted Trent dropped for a player with a fraction of his talent, Gallagher and they got it. Now I see calls for Anthony Gordon to start ahead of Foden?

Southgate is conservative and totally bland. His best team, his best players should be better as a team, and thats on him and his tactics.
But the hype about some of his players?
Thats the English media and their overblown importance and expectations.

1400

Southgate has always been interested in self survival mode for brand Southgate - he must know his limitations, he must also know he will be found out against teams, any team. He will appease anyone, the media in particular, for his own self preservation, in order to prevent his reputation getting torn to shreds too often.

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1401

You’d have thought that someone in charge would have earmarked LB as a problem, and tried to find a solution. Think Alfie Doughty had a solid season at Luton Town. Not sure if he is capped with another nation, but, if not, could not be nearly as poor as Trippier has been. Could replace Trippier with a traffic cone, and not lose anything.

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