I think a lot depends on culture as well. How many Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi’s) parents would encourage their children to go into the uncertain world of professional football for example?
1 Like
This is dangerous stereotyping. Have a look at Yan Dhandas tweets for why.
1 Like
I think you’ll see a question mark at the end of my post. And it’s not stereotyping to say there’s certain tendencies in all cultures.
PC going mad.
Also do you honestly think if say a talented Indian kid turns up for a trial. Wows the coaches, the club would be “Hmm he’s really good and all that but he’s Indian so it’ s a no from me”.
1 Like
Are there any Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi posters on here who can put me straight? Am I stereotyping in a ‘dangerous’ way. Or is there some truth? Are there loads of Chinese kids in Liverpool for example complaining they’re not being given a chance?
1 Like
Why has traditionally men’s sport been separated from women’s? Is that because there are physiological differences? Is it all sexism that’s been going on? Am I dangerously stereotyping?
1 Like
Help me out. Who or how am I stereotyping?
What you’ve just said is a MASSIVE LEAP from what I said.
I do have a problem with anyone getting a hand up on anything. I don’t have a problem with equal opportunity and access for all. I also don’t believe in forcing people to do things they’re not interested in doing.
1 Like
Please read this article and try and approach things with an open mind. Of course people are less likely to become something if there are no/few examples of those doing it successfully, an unequal chance and resistance to it.
Read what Yan says about what he went through and why so many others would fall by the wayside.
2 Likes
Did you see the brackets in my comment? How would you define Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi? Maybe I should have said sub continent rather than Asian. But does my question really warrant your response? Scouser on the dole (I am a scouser by the way) Jews with money etc. Did you see the question mark?
In my opinion everybody nowadays is looking for a reason to be offended which actually doesn’t help to address the real issue of prejudice or racism, discrimination etc.
1 Like
Read the article. Never said racism doesn’t exist in society. But is it racism that stopped Dhanda making it at LFC? Is it racism that stops British Asians making it in football or is it because British Asians generally are not fussed about being pro footballers? I genuinely don’t know the answer but I suspect a lot of it is culture.
Something Dhanda said in the article by the way which is absolute nonsense. Anyone can do anything with the right backing. Really? And this is I suspect the crux of the matter with a lot of youngsters who don’t make it today. It can never be cos you’re not good enough it’s because they don’t appreciate you for what you are. I wanted to be a pro footballer. I didn’t make it. I think I didn’t make it because I’m a white heterosexual male. They told me it was because I’m not good enough but I know the real reason.
Someone from the States who knows the USA version of rounders(baseball). Can you tell me the main demographics of players in baseball?
2 Likes
There’s a level of truth to what you are saying @1972 and IMO it’s not straight forward. IMO it’s a combination of both. What you mentioned has been true, sports let alone football isn’t always considered something a young lad is encouraged without hesitation by every parent. It’s changing these days, but it’ll take time. A stable job and career with guaranteed income is preferable by many parents here. Look at Dhoni’s biopic and you’ll see this trend. Ofcourse not all parents are the same and generalization is never true, but more often than not that’s the case here.
On the other hand, what Dhanda is saying seems true as well. I cannot comment much on that, but there will be bias and things couldn’t be straightforward that one would be getting an equal opportunity every time. Now, it could be because of ability at times and perhaps biases because of country of origin at other, that’s difficult to comprehend. That exists everywhere, not just football or sports, but in corporate world as well. And that’s true for any country, some biases are out of races, some gender and so on. That needs to be addressed, equality of opportunity is definitely desirable in my opinion.
There are many factors for us to not make strides in sports and multiple things are contributing to that, not just one is my take on this.
4 Likes
Nail on head.
1 Like
Dear God man. I’m trying to help you are making it ridiculously hard.
No it’s not just the “Asian parents” or culture thing. Please take a minute to actually think of all the British Asians in even less secure forms of career path like music, acting and other sports like cricket with even less money in it.
Stop stereotyping. Stereotyping, especially in instances like this, is the start of racial profiling. That isn’t a good thing.
There are many many young Asian kids that would clearly love to make it in our sport. Listen to the actual examples of those that have or have tried. Many of them will come from supportive families/parents although not all, just like with White and Black footballers, not all of them are supported too.
To just say “oh none of them must be good enough” is bullshit when there are so many paid playing positions in the football pyramid.
I said earlier; “Of course people are less likely to become something if there are no/few examples of those doing it successfully, an unequal chance and resistance to it.”
If someone is trying to make it in a field people like themselves just simply have never had any success in how likely is it that they will continue to push against that resistance and keep going? How many will simply move on to other paths of less resistance?
Read thess articles which mention how important it is to have role models showing the way;
One thing to think about of then in the 70s with black players and now with Asian players, it’s not that there aren’t any good enough for those levels. Look how many black players have followed in the footsteps of the likes of Viv Anderson. There need to be the equivalent for Asian players to show they can make it in the game that they’re welcome in it. Eventually there’ll be enough of them that they aren’t treated like freaks and anomalies and given such horrific treatment.
1 Like
Wow. What an arrogant man you are. I don’t need your ‘help’ and not sure what you think qualifies you to think you can ‘help’.
Calm yourself down. I never said every Asian kid was too rubbish to make it.
A question for you. West Ham play in a predominantly South Asian area. Are you saying West Ham as a club are racist and that’s why no South Asian player has made it?
Are you also saying culture doesn’t play a part in choices?
Example: Baseball is predominantly an American sport. Am I stereotyping? Or worse racial profiling?
Most South Asian countries are mad about cricket. Am I stereotyping?
My school tried to get kids interested in American football. It didn’t take off. Why? No one was interested. It’s culture.
Now as I said before, everybody should have equal opportunities and access.
I know it’s not just culture, I accept that but by the same token it’s not just racism. That’s my opinion.
“oh none of them must be good enough”
By the way, you have this as a direct quote, that is bang out of order because I never said this. Stop misrepresenting. You use polarisation in your language and absolutes. That’s not conducive to a debate.
For what it’s worth, don’t think @1972 is saying something that is offensive or dangerous. Not in my book at least. What we are looking at is equality of outcome, that’s not possible. Equality of opportunity is definitely desirable and there cannot be one single reason for South Asian players not to become prominent in PL. There are multi variant reasons - racism is one, culture is another, quality maybe and doubt that’s being denied. However, culture and quality among all is a significant factor and denying that means blaming just the external factors rather than holistically looking at the problem.
Look at where India is in terms of football rankings. Accepting the fact that we aren’t good enough as per the PL standards is the first step towards the solving the problem. If India was really shining in terms of global football and yet there were none playing in PL, I would have looked at other factors and maybe racism would have become a bigger aspect to consider. It’s a sensitive topic and easily misconstrued, no one’s denying about racism, but looking at wider causes is equally important.
Also when you look at Japan, there are players who play in PL. Japan is a better footballing nation than India and hence there are examples of players - Miyachi, Okazaki, Minamino. Also Senegal, Egypt are better football nations and thus have players playing in PL.
This needs a parallel solution. While equal opportunity gets worked upon, being good enough to make best use of that is a larger factor and something that needs equal and maybe much more attention.
1 Like
Another thing. Black footballers went through a lot in the 70’s. 50 yrs later I think, notice I said think, if a black kid wants to play professionally and he is good enough he’ll make it.
So are you saying ARD that the UK has made progress and is less racist against black people but has regressed and is more racist against South Asians for example?
Do people in 2020 really see a South Asian person and think of them as a freak as you put it?
Why aren’t there many British Chinese players, if any? Is it all a matter of racism?
Will respond later 
I literally gave you an article of examples of British Asians trying (and succeeding) to get into football and what they were faced with. Also it is still a very racist sport, black players are (after decades of progress) freely allowed to play the sport but they aren’t allowed to help run, officiate and very rarely manage that sport.
Aren’t allowed ?,am i missing something.
3 Likes
I think you are looking at this a bit wrong.
Just because they are ethnically Asian doesn’t mean you need to go to their nations of origin. How well do African countries do in World Cups and that yet that has no impact on Black British footballers growing up to be footballers.
What’s needed are examples to follow. A kid who could become a footballer looks at a game and sees a player like himself may want to follow in their footsteps it’s naturally. If a kid growing up is conditioned to “my kind don’t do that” but sees people like himself becoming cricket stars etc then who are they going to end up idolising and wanting to be like?
As Yan was told he’d never make it as a footballer because he’s of Asian heritage but he’s making it at championship level which is quite high up the pyramid so it’s not based on ability. He had supportive parents/family so it wasn’t anything at his end.
We still live in a racist society in the UK and people are still pigeon holed and sterotyped/profiled when it comes to football. It’s easier for a black ex player to just move into punditry and not bother trying management till there are some successful examples to change that there’s not going to be much attempt at it. And sporty British Asians are going to continue seeing more pathways open to them with less resistance in other areas such as cricket were they are welcomed more and not treated like freaks and outsiders like the examples in the BBC article were with football.
We need pioneers and trailblazers in both situations but it obviously isn’t easy for those trying.
Right I’m going to stop on this subject now think it’s massively diverted from Barnes original post/point and obviously getting a lot of people angry or bored or both. I’ve said my piece I’m leaving it at this.
2 Likes