We’ll agree to disagree. Like it was said, it’s not such a precise science. We’ll know more about our players than other teams. We do tests in pre season that other teams can’t know the results of. If a player is running a bit less or there’s a drop in some other metric to another team it could be tactics or due to instructions given etc not a drop off in fitness or stamina.
You’re right I don’t know why it’s so hard for me to understand. According to you there’s nothing we could have done to forsee or head off the situation we’re facing. I don’t know how other teams manage it.
I personally don’t believe Fabinho’s legs have gone. He never had legs! The fact he was considered a full back at some point in his career amazes me.
He has never been mobile, his game was based on reading where the danger was and breaking up play, something he is very good at. However, when the system is not working he is the one exposed. Instead of his general role of “crabbing” (moving from one side of the pitch to the other) to cover the full backs, he is being exposed by people actually running at him and in my opinion is a result of teams by passing our press - very often and far to easy. The reasons for this belong in a different thread.
Yes, Fabinho is out of form but he is not the only one. To consider him lame is amusing. I am not sure if it has been posted but how many of us thought Torres’ legs had gone???
Bang on in my book. Fabinho is at his best when we’re tight, together and his job is to plug little gaps. Right now he’s being asked to plug gaps like the grand canyon.
We’re just too easy to play through and to be fair this starts up front.
Does anyone have stats on how many times we win possession in the opposition defensive third this year compared to last?
I’ve always been a bit suspect about this and indeed most stats based approaches to players to predict their attributes and performance levels. I think of players’ path from ~20 to their 30s as an evolution. Their strengths and weaknesses change. Gerrard was able to navigate this, as did Pirlo and any number of others. The issue is the system - if too rigid it doesn’t allow for the evolution and if to lax then there’s no identity to a team.
The issue with the current team is that there was an evolution planned for the system and the players couldn’t implement it for a number of reasons: too limited, not available enough or a combination. We also didn’t really look to players individual evolution path and instead had a purely cerebral plan. The above examples relies on teams accommodating the plusses and minuses of individuals being persevered with - but in reality beyond Thiago we don’t have someone who we’d run a system around.
Gerrard and Pirlo managing to keep going longer than some expected is precisely why the philosphy can be successful. You need these occasional successes to encourage people to give you money for the 30 year old who is about to become second fiddle to your new 23 year old.
I have some sympathy with the view that Fabinho might yet look a lot better if the midfield overall is upgraded.
Stick Caicedo and Bellingham in there as two action-packed number 8s, and I strongly suspect that Fabinho will revert to being an efficient Hoover for us again, plugging gaps, getting his foot it, giving it simple and going again.
I don’t know that for sure, but it is fair to say he never had any great pace anyway; and he is currently being asked to plug chasms all over the pitch, because the midfield, on the whole, is not up to it.
Anyway, some good posts above, and food for thought.
BTW, the same might be true of whatever midfielders we end up retaining, young and old. I strongly suspect whoever it is will start to look better if we had two like Bellingham and Caicedo in there with them. We would not be dominated, athletically, which is what has been happening all season long. So then at that point, we might actually play our football, instead of chasing shadows as teams cut through us.
I could say the same thing. The quote doesnt say that players legs have gone but no-one else notices until they play elsewhere…which appears to be how you are solely interpreting it.
Given outfielders have generally peaked around 28+ and retire around 34, then you have a natural referance point to build around as to when you look to move players on - and for their replacements. In some cases we may have found someones levels had dropped but in other cases it will have been because it made sense opportunistically or financially.
Yeah, the point is more one of proactive succession planning rather than about having any sophisticated way to time it. After Keegan left us he won the European player of the year and later returned to England and finished league top scorer for Southampton. That doesnt mean we got it wrong by allowing him to leave, as for it to work it doesnt actually require the leaving player to be on or even close to a downswing, only that we’re constantly looking to bring people through who can either force established stars out or respond to situations like Keegan’s request to leave.
Firstly, I never knew KK’s first name was Joseph.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I was not alive to see Liverpool in their pomp in the 70’s. So, I do not have first hand information of the scenario.
From what I read, Hamburg had great financial backing from a Japanese owner and were able to offer him over £200k a year salary, which dwarfed his £12k a year salary. Apparently, he also had a £500k release clause. So, my understanding is him leaving was down to him - which you mention at the end of your post
I like the point(s) you raise.
Piggy backing on to your post. Teams can benefit from selling players to progress (irrelevant of their success afterwards) but as fans we may question it.
If Keegan never left we may not have signed King Kenny. Without selling Rush we would not have signed Beardsley and Aldridge. If we didn’t sell Torres, we may not have signed Suarez (although I believe we were actually trying to sign Suarez to partner Torres). Without selling Coutinho we may not have AB or VVD.
I agree about not signing Alisson without the Coutinho money, but this narative about VVD only signing due to us selling Coutinho needs to stop. We already had the money and a deal for Virgil agreed only for Warner to fuck it up when he got pissed and ran his mouth, which pissed off Southampton and delayed the move. We would have still got Virgil even if we kept Coutinho it was only Allisson that his transfer fee allowed us to go and sign
If I remember correctly, I think it was not long after that we saw a number of improved contract extensions, so it could be possible that it went into increasing the wage budget.
