Masculinity - What Makes a Man?

[Bekloppt]

Hamfist is a verb?

[Mascot]

@ILLOK

I think you’re hamfisting your political agenda into a problem that is far more complex than you’re giving it credit for.

Ironically, I’m the one seeing complexity in the issue. You’re the one simplifying it.

By saying ‘it’s more complicated than just cry a bit’ you’re strawmanning. I’ve never said it’s that simple. I’ve never said boys need to just cry a bit.

[redalways]

That’s because it doesn’t fit their political agenda…?

[WeeJoe]

@ILLOK

I think you’re hamfisting your political agenda into a problem that is far more complex than you’re giving it credit for.

He started with ‘some of which…’ then made a few interesting points. We’re not writing essays here

[ILLOK]

@Mascot

@ILLOK

I think you’re hamfisting your political agenda into a problem that is far more complex than you’re giving it credit for.

Ironically, I’m the one seeing complexity in the issue. You’re the one simplifying it.

By saying ‘it’s more complicated than just cry a bit’ you’re strawmanning. I’ve never said it’s that simple. I’ve never said boys need to just cry a bit.

Your stock response to suicides in men, by your own admission, relates to identity politcs.

I think that’s a problem, and a common one made by the middle class left. It’s easy to espouse the benefits of talking more when you have a roof over your head and food on the table.

[Commando]

I use something similar during the summer when I tend to wear sports type shorts that have no pockets. Normally I’d have trousers and/or a jacket to carry the usual bits like you’ve mentioned. I don’t think that ‘man bags’ are a big thing one way or the other. If it’s convenient for the user then what’s the problem.
As for the question posed in the thread title? Who knows? We can debate/discuss this until the cows come home but there’ll always be different takes.

[anon27364116]

I use a backpack/rucksack for such occasions. It’s got a lot of room for all kinds of really manly things.

[Klopptimist]

I’m used to big bulges in my shorts and trousers, the more the merrier.

[Klopptimist]

I must be, I wore a pink tie at Royal Ascot.

[Mascot]

@ILLOK

Your stock response to suicides in men, by your own admission, relates to identity politcs.

I said it was a big part of the problem. And it is.

We live in a society where the default frame for men is to suppress feelings, don’t show emotion, and remain stoic in the face of difficulty.

If you care to look into it, you’ll see all the charities and organisations with an interest in suicide and mental health running campaigns and programmes of work aimed at giving men the confidence and emotional ability to open up and talk about how they feel.

Suggesting this is just telling boys it’s OK to have a cry is a gross simplification of an already well understood problem.

And ‘identity politics’? Please. You’re surely better than that.

@ILLOK

I think that’s a problem, and a common one made by the middle class left. It’s easy to espouse the benefits of talking more when you have a roof over your head and food on the table.

That’s a nonsense contribution to this conversation. It’s easier to do anything when you have a roof over your head and food on the table.

[cynicaloldgit]

Nothing wrong with pink. I have several pink ties and shirts.

Maybe not giving a flying fuck what other people think is part of manliness?

[Klopptimist]

I love the Pratchett line about the lesson given to the assassins. The correct clothing to wear for any occasion is what you chose to wear as you always look amazing. That’s the lesson of self confidence. Jnr lives by this with some interesting results.

[Bekloppt]

You don’t always look amazing.

I learned that the hard way.

[anon27364116]

Thin line between self confidence and self delusion

[Bekloppt]

@Commando

As for the question posed in the thread title? Who knows? We can debate/discuss this until the cows come home but there’ll always be different takes.

That’s what makes it interesting. If there was a simple answer there wouldn’t be much debate. Personally, I find it fascinating to hear the views of people like yourself, who’ve had very different life experiences to mine.

[gasband]

OK wait. Can some real men tell me are we supposed to discuss this thread seriously?

[Bekloppt]

Yes, you are.
It’s a serious topic and I’m sure you have some good points to make, especially as you are from a different culture to most people here.

Do you think that there’s a different view of masculinity in your culture than in Europe or the US? Are those ideas changing? If so, in what way?

[Klopptimist]

You were not complaining about my massively horned helmet at the time?

[Klopptimist]

There’s your problem though isn’t it. How are you defining a real man?

`I’ll try.

I see a real man as something very much at odds with some aspects of current society. A real man opens a door for a lady (been bollocked for that), a real man provides for and protects his family (the former critical if the mother of any children chooses to stay home and look after them), a real man is strong and capable and stands up when required. A real man is honest, hard working, chivalrous, protecting and ultimately devoted to his family. How jolly old fashioned of me.

As for crying, I cry like a baby at funerals and at films, so what. Punch me in the head and I’ll just laugh at you, I’m sure as hell not crying then. Pull at my heart strings and I’m a real softy. Fuck with my family and I’m more than a little grouchy.

Pretty much a real man is a real human. Honesty, integrity, protection of loved ones etc. Just the same for a real woman.

[Dutch]

Liverpool FC — LFC supports city’s Pride celebrations with a host of activity