Strange take, I grew up in Leigh, its pretty close to and is the main rival of Wigan… So I think I understand a fair bit about the town thanks.
Wigan isn’t an outskirt town of Liverpool, it’s also a fiercely independant place. As I said you’ll find most people in Wigan will talk about rugby not football.
Again you miss the point with some sort of attack on manchester people. Tierney was not asked to look at the incident by VAR. Var should have at least told him to review the handball, so again I’d be looking at Kavanagh who like Lampard said is either utterly incompetent or worse corrupt.
I don’t like Everton and I don’t like Lampard but they’ve done something we should have done a long time ago and that’s imply corruption is involved. And they are only angry at events in the last couple of weeks whereas we’ve been getting shafted by these fucking manc cheats for years.
Taylor went a long way to costing us the title in 2019 and Kavanagh has potentially given City a 4 point advantage this season which will probably prove crucial.
It’s blatant corruption in plain view. Again, our lads will have put an enormous amount of effort over 38 games only to be denied by a fucking cheating manc cunt.
As someone who has parents from that area it seemed to be Bolton If you saw a shirt around Leigh or Wigan or Atherton. I remember never getting anything said when I wore my Liverpool shirt when visiting my nans in fact it always seemed quite split between the two areas and you have to remember this was when Man Utd had won a few league titles in the 90s
Ashton-Under-Lyne I have absolutely no knowledge of and to be honest Man City fans back then tended to like us.
The rivalry between the two cities always seems to be played up by some considering how close they are in many ways.
The two refs may have links with Man City which are to be called into question but it’s not because of where they are from.
One of the biggest problems with VAR is the continued refusal of people who get worked up about it to take the time to familiarize themselves with the guidelines for its use.
Lets use a completely hypothetical situation of a forward running onto a through ball, getting to it first and then experiencing a coming together with the keeper in which the forward is badly taken out. The ball goes in and the refs doesnt see enough in it to further punish the keeper. What role does VAR have here?
What VAR CAN Do
The VAR will review the footage to see if the ref’s description of the coming together is contradicted by the footage. If what the footage shows is different than the ref’s description, then VAR will intervene. If the ref has correctly described the incident then its role is over.
In this completely hypothetical scenario, that means that if the ref said “yeah there was a coming together but I think it was shoulder to shoulder so no further punishment”, then VAR can look to see if that describes the actual contact. If they see, lets just say, the keeper making contact with the attackers chest with his raised foot, then they have found an error and will intervene.
What VAR CANNOT Do
If the footage is consistent with the ref’s description then VAR’s involvement is over. If the person on VAR thinks that under the same circumstances, with the same understanding of the incident, he would have made a different decision if the ref on the pitch, then tough titties. VAR is explicitly not to be used to over rule the ref’s subjective judgement.
So, to go back to this hypothetical incident, if the ref said “I saw the goalie launch himself into a challenge with a raised foot that made contact with the attackers chest, but you know what…keepers gotta be keeping. No foul” then no mater how much of a dickhead the VAR thinks someone with that perspective is, as long as that description of events is consistent with the footage they cannot intervene.
Using the Monitor
So, when does the VAR direct the ref to look at the monitor?
If the footage shows that the ref’s description of events was wrong, then he made his decision based on incorrect information. He would then be told to go to the monitor to get a correct image of what happened and then make a new decision based on that correct understanding of the incident.
If the footage was consistent with the ref’s description but VAR thought the decision made on that information was wrong, they will not and cannot ask them to go to the monitor to take another look to second guess their initial interpretation of a correctly described event.
If we use this hypothetical situation, what are the scenarios that would make the VAR tell the ref to go to the monitor?
the ref saw a mostly shoulder to shoulder contact and the footage showed a raised foot being planted in to the chest of the attacker
the ref saw a raised foot being planted in the chest of the attacker, but the footage shows it landing even higher. In this situation it is possible the ref may have interpreted the recklessness of the challenge differently if he had seen that happen, so he is given the chance to reassess his decision with the correct information on hand.
When does the VAR NOT tell the ref to go and have a look?
When VAR thinks the ref is a dickhead and just needs an opportunity to get his head on straight and have another go and making a decision on an incident he saw clearly but interpreted like he’d never seen a football match before.
All very fine and well explained.
But they may as well be looking at a ready meal rotating in a microwave instead of a screen if todays assault isn’t given as a red card.
Yes. It was an awful decision. But it is a mistake that lies with the ref’s initial interpretation. If we want to place the blame here on VAR, what we are asking it to do is reref the game. This means not just providing an additional set of eyes, but adding in a second entity making subjective judgements about the game. That may seem the right line to draw on an incident like this (though not necessarily…see my final paragraph), I think we have to consider how that plays out when extrapolated across the entire universe of debatable decisions. How affected would the flow of the game be? How confusing would it be for players having two different people making judgements on the game? I think it’s very debatable that allowing VAR to “reref the game” would be a net positive even if we can point to situations like this where we’d expect it to have righted a wrong.
I think the bigger issue though is that this was a decision that reflects an absurd attitude about what keepers are allowed to do in challenging for the ball that is not limited to this ref today. This was not a one off bollock dropping decision, but a reflection of how refs think about the game. See my extensive entire library of complaints about Ederson and his repeated lack of punishment.
My only question is, had Diaz headed it but missed, and with the same contact from the keeper, would the ref have given a penalty? If yes, would he also have handed out a red card?
My fear is that he said to himself “It’s ok. They got the goal. Let’s not end this game already by sending him off”
I’m less concerned with whether the fault lies with the VAR or the on-field ref 5 metres from the action and more concerned about what an absurd decision it was in general.
Just want to say Diaz is one brave fucker. I think every one of our other forwards would have bailed on going with the head in that situation. I love him already.
Perish the thought but unless football goes down the American football route of playing the refs audio over the stadium loudspeaker, I think everyone will continue to get angered about the role of VAR. We still don’t know what Mike Dean thinks he saw and we never will.
I think the assumption given that VAR did nothing has to be that Dean thought he saw pretty much what the footage shows happened.
One of the shifts in approach in the last 10-15 years has been the promotion of linos into assistants with the refs encouraged to ask them for help and them officiating the game as a team. Given the line in the sand VAR has drawn I think it would make sense for refs to be more humble in acknowledging they didnt see a situation clearly, this opening up a large window for VAR to make the initial decision rather than be limited to correcting something the ref falsely claimed he saw. which will never happen.
I doubt it. One, see my comment how keepers are allowed to maim attackers in the interest of going for the ball. But also factor in that idiocy of defenders rarely being penalized if they are late after the attacker has already got off their shot. See Mo getting taken out the week, against West Ham I think. I am convinced that as long as Diaz got there first, as long as there was no contact with the face, he was never going to get anyting.
Agree with your explanations, but for the rules need to be altered especially when a challenge endangers the safety of a player and that certainly did in every facet
There are two areas the game as a whole has a collective blind spot over when it comes to player safety, and that is challenges made by keepers and aerial challenges. In both cases there is a collective acceptance that the player can make a challenge that commits his opponent to being clattered regardless of who wins the ball and it not result in further punishment and with keepers especially is often not even a foul. In both cases the player can be late, completely take out the opponent giving him no opportunity to avoid the collision other than giving up on a ball he would otherwise win, and it is not treat it as serious foul play. All this despite the level of risk and endangerment this poses to the clattered player is so much greater than that posed by the standard sliding challenge that is punished by a red card.
I’m going to assume Dean didn’t see the full extent of the assault and further to that I’m going to assume Attwell is a fucking corrupt, cheating cunt.
This is the same corrupt, cheating cunt who didn’t think Cresswell’s assault on Henderson at West Ham was a sending off offence. Furthermore, this is the same corrupt, cheating cunt who gave Brighton a last minute pen in the corresponding fixture last season when nobody who was actually in the stadium even appealed for it, including the bloke involved in the incident.
Liverpool Football Club need to call out this fucking corrupt, cheating cunt and expose him for what he is.
And furthermore, if you are correct and Dean thought he saw pretty much what the footage showed then he too is a fucking corrupt, cheating cunt who also needs exposing.
Disagree somewhat as in both cases it comes down to the interpretation of the referee and that is where the fault lies, doesn’t matter who, where or how the contact is made a foul using, careless, reckless or excessive force that endangers the player should be treated accordingly and their keeper endangered the safety of Diaz and IMO used excessive force and was out of control.
Yes. This completely baffles me. The fact that defenders and goalies seemingly have carte blanche to wipe out the attacker as long as he gets the shot away. It’s bizarre. The example you mention was a pretty bad challenge if I remember correctly. Can’t recall if it was West Ham, but it was a recent game.
I do think there was also a case of Dean not wanting to ‘ruin the contest’ on the Diaz goal. And it also looked like an outcome based decision. Diaz (somehow) didn’t get injured, we got the goal, early in the game. All good, right? He must have been the only one watching the game who didn’t think that was a red card. Even with the rule of carte blanche in mind, this was a bad one.
