Post Match: Liverpool Man City (EPL 6/2/21 4.30pm)

We weren’t winning the league this season anyway. This just clarifies the position - our only chance to turn a disappointing season into a great season is the European cup. I am not too dejected by the loss. The score line flatters them as we were matching them for most of the game. Obviously then Ally had his two moments but these things happen. He has been immense for us all season.

To be honest, part of the problem was that we didn’t make enough chances. I noticed that when we counter attacked, Jones was slowing it down too much. He needs to just pass it first time. I am also sick of listening to how great Thiago is at passing. Yeah, he can play the Hollywood ball but again, I’m not sure we are better for having him in the side. Hard to judge when we have so many players out but right now, it feels a bit like when United signed Veron. He is a fantastic player but does he suit how we play?

Anyway, we will have Jota back soon and I think that more than anything else will make a massive difference. We lost badly to them but we will be back.

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as a Liverpool fan since 1960

Typical glory hunter…

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Not at all?

You wrote this;

“I went for a long walk today, kept up to date on my phone. Saw the half-time score and couldn’t help noticing Manchester City FC had been awarded a penalty and Tiago had been booked after 3 minutes. Now as I said, I hadn’t watched the game and those 2 decisions might have been absolutely correct, but it just seemed in keeping with everything that had gone on previously, the fact we concede more penalties than we get despite the fact we spend about 75% of each game attacking, and our players get booked earlier and for less when the likes of Mo, Mane etc are being assaulted with impunity all over the pitch.
Tiago’s booking today was the 4th time this season one of our lads has been booked in the first 3 minutes. Compare that to twats like Pogba and Fernandes who commit 3 or 4 yellow card offences every game before the ref even considers booking them. Quite simply our games have been officiated to a different standard than everyone else’s all season, simple as that.”

You have made an observation based on not even seeing the actual event?

How you can sarcastically say I have a narrative, when you post assumptions based on your own agenda is just beyond baffling. I give up.

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2m!

That’s right, two fvcking million!!

@sgs What point are you trying to make?

I agree with you 100% that the club is undoubtedly financially corrupt and are a sports washing exercise by the sheik. But if you don’t think that the squad of players that they put out on the field are a fantastic team, you’re only kidding yourself. They are arguably one of the best squad of players I’ve ever seen, regardless of how they were paid for.

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Yes, despite not having watched the game I feel I can still make the point our players are booked earlier and for first offences while others - both our opponents and some playing in matches which don’t involve us - get far more leeway. Same with penalties, again, it may have been a stonewaller, but every contact by one of our lads is a penalty whereas different rules apply at the other end.

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That’s the problem, isn’t it?

I don’t think this team is lacking for resilience, even though it may seem so. We’ve been battered by not just injuries, but also poor refereeing and downright bad luck over the last few months. It wasn’t too long ago that we were still at the top of the table, beating a team 7-0 away.

I see the common narrative that Klopp is doing something wrong with the tactics, or that we should have bought centre-backs earlier, or a million and one other things. But the truth is, this is really the perfect storm of a season.

Let’s look at this game first. It wasn’t a bad game by any means, especially considering our recent form. Yes, we didn’t dominate them like we did in past seasons, but that is to be expected of a team trying to play its way out of poor form. And despite what many of you claim, we were easily matching them for the whole time until they got gifted the two goals. It was a game of fine margins, and despite the scorelines in some of the games over the past few seasons, it has always been a game of fine margins won only by a healthy dose of luck and taking of chances well. To say we were playing poorly is a large exaggeration, we were playing as well as could be expected given all that’s happened recently.

Except, we just don’t seem to have any luck at all this season. We don’t seem to be getting any 50-50 balls, all the second balls just seem to fall the wrong way for us, and our finishing seems to be just that little bit off at times. Just when we’re finally playing at a level where we could snatch a win, we inexplicably give up two goals that we would never (except against Madrid teams) give up, within 3 minutes. If this happened just twenty minutes in, I could see them digging their heels in and battling on. Coming when they did however, I don’t see how people can reasonably expect the team to not get completely deflated. One goal was hard enough, let alone 2?

And bad luck it is. So many people are whining on and on about how we should have bought centre-backs in the summer. To recap, we sold Lovren, but we bought Thiago in, which in theory enabled us to free up Fabinho to serve as a fourth centre-back if need be. How anyone could claim that we definitely needed some great player (who would have needed to have been willing to sit on the bench for most of the season) to be brought in is beyond me. The hindsight bias is strong, especially with the claims of “oh but Gomez and Matip are made of glass”. Let’s check those facts for a moment. The only injuries that Gomez has suffered recently were impact injuries, and had nothing to do with whether his body is fragile or not. And Jürgen has already come out to say that Matip had been playing on with an injury all season. Prior to joining us, he barely missed any games for Schalke. To say he is extremely injury-prone belies the fact that for much of his career with us, he’s missed games mainly because of the form of other players keeping him off the starting lineup. Van Dijk also had an incredible injury record until this one, and no one could have foreseen Pickford being an idiot (I may be wrong on this one). The odds of us losing 3 of our starting centre-backs to season-ending injuries were extremely low and I could have made a lot of money betting on that. And yet somehow that happened. None of the players we have tried in centre-back so far have really been sub-par to a massive degree. Phillips and Williams have played really well for 5th and 6th choice centre-backs. For all that people gripe on and on, I don’t think we would have brought in both Davies and Kabak if Matip hadn’t gone down injured, and for good reason. What would they be doing in a perfectly normal season? 4th and 5th choice? Is that a reasonable expectation? Furthermore, despite people claiming we need to buy buy buy, we had to loan out Minamino also because we were out of first-team slots. Just imagine the depth of this injury crisis that results in us not having much choice to pick, despite having the theoretical depth that most teams could only dream of.

Moving on to midfield injuries, people keep slating Keita and Shaqiri as injury-prone. Shaqiri, perhaps, but he’s still managed to be an option for much of his career here at Liverpool so far, albeit mainly as a squad player rather than a starter, which was what he was brought in for. Keita never missed many games for his previous teams, just like Matip, but once he came in, he suffered one serious injury, recovered to slowly play his part in the team, before suffering an impact injury against Barcelona. He then goes on to have an interrupted season by minor strains, but still managing to play enough games to have contributed meaningfully to a league win. He gets injured, barely recovers in time, before being put in to play two full international games by an idiot manager, which then ruins him again. As far as we know right now, he’s technically not really injured, but just being put on an extended rehabilitation programme to avoid any recurrence of such an injury. Oxlade-Chamberlain is yet another one whom although you could argue doesn’t have the best injury record, his injuries tend to be mainly because of his playing style, which leaves him more prone to impact injuries from players interrupting his runs forward.

All of these players, you couldn’t really argue to be sicknotes unless you only thought about it superficially. And yet, their injuries aren’t losses just for the ability to select them, but also losses for the team morale, especially when you see very obviously the absence of your teammates from training. Given the way that we play, having the bodies to substitute in when someone starts to fatigue is very important, but we have had to ration that this season since there really aren’t enough bodies there. For all the people questioning the substitution of Jones in this game, this is his first full season as an integrated member of the first team, at the age of 19. As good and talented as he may be, and for all the supposed “energy of youth” that people might claim that he should have, he’s still not going to have the fully developed physicality that he was going up against yesterday. Sure, he might not have been showing it yet, but I am guessing that the management team did not want to risk him being physically and mentally fatigued, giving away goals (for all the good that did us in the end) and getting blamed for it, just like against West Bromwich Albion. Bringing him off was a good idea, since it would also inject fresh energy into the game.

Bringing Shaqiri on was also a good idea, since City’s team isn’t that tall, and they weren’t dominating us in the air. Rather, he would provide better movement in tight spaces than someone like Origi, since he’s more mobile and has better acceleration. It was the right move, and was only undone by the two goals. In fact, so far this season, given the limitations that we had to play with, our setups have been right for the vast majority of the time, just that we haven’t executed them well enough.

I mentioned on TIA a few seasons ago, when we were experiencing similar problems in our play, that often when we are on song, we’re not passing to players, but into space. And we do so with precision, that often unlocks teams, not necessarily by quick but rather by smart movement. And such play requires consistency of both passing and moving, which requires that we continually try it, and execute it successfully. My theory of what’s changed this season is the increased manhandling of our front 3 gone unpunished by the officials, means that they cannot reach the balls, which makes the passers instead cut their passes shorter, which means that the passes are easier to intercept. The increased physical and mental fatigue also contribute to less accuracy in passing, which completely undermines the way we play. The games in which we’ve done well recently, were won mainly on shorter passes rather than longer passes, and faster movement, which is a slight change in the way we played early in the season, as well as for much of last season, where we were relying on slightly longer balls by Henderson, Wijnaldum, and Fabinho. The cross-field passing is also less accurate, with the prime example of good execution being Salah’s goal against City at Anfield last season. This season, instead of Robertson being able to deliver a one-touch cross after receiving the ball however, more often than not the players end up running backward and losing any opportunity created by the pass. Klopp alluded to this in a recent match, when he discussed how Alexander-Arnold was not executing the pre-game instructions to make his passes shorter and attempt fewer wild crosses.

For all that people bang on about Klopp’s supposed failings tactically, or us not buying the new flavour of the month, the only way we can fix this is through hard work on the training ground, afforded by a break in the schedule. Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of the break, so we have to somehow squeeze in re-training all these fundamentals in the tight schedule of recovery between matches and training. I have a feeling that if we had an extended break, we would have the opportunity to work on such things, which would also improve our positioning for second balls, and therefore in a sense improve our luck a little.

But our luck can only be improved so much by us, when we’re basically facing massive calamities every other game, like goalkeeping howlers (I’m really still harping on Pickford mauling Van Dijk here) or refereeing idiocy/bias. I do think the management team knows what needs to be done, just that we are really catching no breaks this season. All this knee-jerking going on in the past few match threads is also really annoying, with all the posters who only come out of the woodwork when we’re doing poorly to whine and bitch about particular favourite scapegoats. Had that been Adrian or Karius out there for example, they would have been absolutely crucified. For all that claim that it’s because Alisson has earned himself enough credit, it’s only because there already exists a blinkered view of the others. Karius was doing fairly well and improving until the Champions League Final. Given that he is very much a confidence player, it was basically impossible to come back from that. He also did not have the benefit of a mega price tag that Alisson had. Alisson is indeed better than Karius, even if marginally, since that fine margin is what makes a huge difference in some games, but the difference in treatment of him is staggering. Alisson doesn’t even have the excuse of a concussion, just two massive brainfarts. And he already has a prior history of those. Firmino has had many rubbish games this season alone, and yet he’s afforded plenty of time, because he wears his heart out on his sleeve. I genuinely do love him, and I think he’s central to our team more so than Mané and Salah, but when he’s playing poorly (and he has for pretty much most of this season), he stinks up the pitch worse than what Origi has done in his recent games (although less than in some of the earlier games). Minamino has been mostly ineffectual when he’s come on, as much as i think he can be really great as a Firmino replacement, but somehow he’s been talked up as better than Origi in our team already. Now, despite being the flavour of the month earlier this season, Thiago is starting to come in for a lot of unwarranted criticism. The only thing you can really blame him for is some really poor tackling at times, but apart from that he’s been starved of options to pass to, and also he’s been great at managing despite being booked.

I understand the pain and frustration we’re all feeling as a fanbase, but really, the solutions are not simple. Just as the team has to battle through that and stand strong mentally, we too as fans ought not to lose the plot. I for one believe that City might be odds on to win the title, but you can’t rule us out just yet (in fact, City did come back from an even worse margin to win the title in 10-11, far later in the season). And even if we don’t win it this season, even if we don’t even make the Champions League, the experience gained will be invaluable in the next few seasons, especially for players like Jones, Gomez (less so given his absence from training and playing) and Alexander Arnold. There will be many times ahead when we will be playing worse than we should be, and getting poor results on the pitch, and this experience gained should give them the ability to lead the team through such times when we encounter them again.

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That’s me! :trophy::trophy::trophy::trophy::trophy::trophy:

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That Man City team yesterday was so weak by their standards and were there for the taking.

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Right ok, and you don’t feel actually seeing the incidents would have any relevance to that view point. Ok I’ll leave it there then.

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Comparing Cheaty as a club including their squad to other premier league teams is not exactly like comparing apples with apples though.
We all know there has been lots of money at their disposal to finance whatever purchases they have wanted… Sniffer is lauded because he is supposedly the best manager about, but is he not more akin to an international manager who can call upon the country’s best players… Only in Sniffers situation, he gets to go out and buy the players he wants from across the world regardless of nationality or cost.!
Maybe by comparing this Cheaty side to great world cup winning sides like Brazil, West Germany and Spain who had the choice of their nations finest… only then can we see how far short Sniffer is in managing Cheaty as a supposedly world beater…
What Jurgen has done, is proper ‘old school’ philosophy of training, man-management and galvanized a doubting fanbase… the two sides yesterday should never have reached equal standing… but Jurgen has provided material to be written down in folklore history…
What Sniffer has done, is amass a group of soulless mercenaries for his soulless club.!
Fraudiola about sums him up.!!

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Doesn’t matter how fraudulent they are, (and I agree that they absolutely are BTW) you have to compare them, they’re in the league and they’re winning loads of games. Klopp and Liverpool, or any other club, can’t just write them off as frauds and spit the dummy out, they have to deal with it like adults.

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Yep, didn’t think they were particularly good either yesterday.

That Dias who was lauded as the 2nd coming of Van Dijk was caught easily and gave us the pen.

Foden is quite the talent but we didn’t half make it easy for him.

I am not denigrating the players as individuals but I have got a HUGE problem with the way they were assembled. The club is the disgrace, not the players themselves.

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Blatant yellow.

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They werent but they didnt need to be.
We looked all out of ideas. We’d break and then 5 seconds later the ball is back with Alisson.
We played so many sidewards and backward passes. The only time we caught them out was the pen.

Sad that I have to repeat myself…

The situation we were faced with this season required a careful balance between FSG’s default long term approach/thinking and short term needs/reality.

In a season of adversity, we are woefully ill-equipped to adapt.

The failure to do that is the reason we have a team in a clear state of dysfunction in terms of its tactical organization, plugging holes in one area only to expose new holes in another.

Signing a Thiago with the intent to redefine its attacking system, yet unable to play him to his strengths…

This is the kind of thing that if not well managed could lead a manager to consider his options…

I’m not one of those who like to bash them at any opportunity, but FSG failed Klopp and the fans here…

Just because you have a manager with an almost infinite ability to inspire as well as find solutions, does not mean you should take advantage of him in this manner.

We waited four weeks in January until our last CB was lost for the season to have any sense of urgency…That is malpractice!

Well done @Maria I have cheered up already thanks to you. We have had a rough time of it and every time we have got back a bit we had another injury setback and I hope the players have less pressure to win the league and concentrate on staying in the top four and go all out for the CL.
I hope we get Shitty in the CL and get our revenge there to stop them ever winning it.
COYR YNWA

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He is just another ex manure player waiting to stick the knife in when we are down he was a shit manager just like his ex colleague Nevillain and they both have been indulged on here for too long
F him and up the reds!

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