Post Match: Spurs, Hooper, VAR, PL v Liverpool (EPL 30/9/23 5.30pm)

[Flobs]

I wonder where he was, the BAR room by mistake due to not having his glasses on?

[Sportbilly1966]

I like having conversations with Limie as he puts his points over very well and from what the laws of the game say. Yes we do disagree on some points of the interpretation and what an outcome maybe but I respect what he says and the way he goes about it.

[Commando]

Well said Malcom? Martin? Max? Milhouse? Marmaduke?

Come on, give us a clue?

[Flobs]

Moby …

[The_Phenom]

Maybe possibly Mandrake, Mando, McCoy, Marcos, or even Mohammed?

[SBYM]

lol…

When you click on his username, it literally says ‘Mark’.

[The_Phenom]

Spoilsport!

[sandsoftime]

It might be Howard Webb…
For his middle name is Melton… or Melt for short :0)
If you are he… I claim my £5

[Quicksand]

@Limiescouse

@Mascot

The protocols are the problem.

Partly. I’d argue the biggest issue with the refs has been the communication void they have allowed to exist, especially in the rapidly changing world of VAR. That void has been filled with some sort of perverse martyr Olympics amongst the fans. Honestly sometimes these thread read like a purity contest with people competing for who can find the most number of incidents to be aggrieved about and who can be most committed to refusing to acknowledge there are legitimate reasons for a ref to have given a decision you didnt like.

We have so much to legitimately be aggrieved by as a fan base. Even concerned by. But we make it so much easier to ignore us with how much we dilute our legitimate arguments with these nonsense ones. And to the game as a whole, the refs cannot clean this up by themselves just as they didnt cause it by themselves. On top of the fans you have a media who live by the controversy of it. They give air to players and managers to talk utter bollocks after the games then report on those clearly self-serving, often uninformed comments as if they are worth of evaluation. Their pundits are just as bad, and that all feeds a fan base desperate to feel aggrieved by the unfairness of it all.

I think this is pointed at a few people, and is totally unfair.

You are representing the Jones red as defensible based on “bend” in the leg. You are not applying the same criteria to the tackle that injured Cody?

People on here, or indeed anywhere that catalogue injustices against Liverpool are not diluting anything. They are more likely highlighting a genuine agenda against the club.

And to call what people discuss as nonsense is certainly unfair. If your “take” on the Jones red is so certain then why are the club appealing it?
Its obviously because people who have access to same information that you have believe the red card was not merited.

Your explanation for the red card, reasonable as it is makes you the man in the corner shouting at the wall.
And your view won’t be vindicated by a rejection of the appeal.
That may happen because they won’t compound the crimes committed against LFC on Saturday.

[Quicksand]

@RedOverTheWater

My take on Limie’s educated input:

Let’s focus on the tightest aspects we can, rather than spiraling out to issues that will lose support, as they are more contestable.

If I am understanding that part accurately, it is well said.

As a fan I’ve got a long list of issues I want to ‘prosecute’, but I think to gain traction, the club will need to be very disciplined in what it wants to pursue, and how it want to pursue it.

And I know it’s just a discussion board and all, but let’s keep some unity among good reds in here.

I have loved reading Limie and Mascot on this stuff today.

It looks like the club has the bit between its teeth, and there is a fair amount of support among the wider footballing community on the worst aspects of what we witnessed on Sunday.

In other words, we have a card or two in our hand to play. Let’s hope it’s the start of some much needed change.

We can all have an educated input though?
I mean, Klopp and his team have an educated input?
And they belive the Jones red was unmerited. Ergo, an appeal.

My problem with @Limiescouse view is that by defending or representing the protocols of VAR he misses the fact that decisions may be corrupted. And using the likes of Dale Jonson, a stepoed up intellectual version of Whitewash Gallagher isn’t helping his case.

[Noo_Noo]

@rupzzz

x.com

I’d want the whole game personally. Nothing where they can decide when to start and finish the clip.

[Sportbilly1966]

And I’m from Yorkshire and same town lol

[GermanRed]

[Quicksand]

There is a rumour circulating that both VARs were watching the golf when Diaz scored…
Probably fanciful?

[redalways]

@mattyhurst

There are two legitimate claims in that match alone so I’d rather we focus on them and not the slight tug here or there.

Where would you put the bookings for Salah, Robertson, and Jota (first one) then?

[redalways]

In my mind at least, I think @Limiescouse’s point is that you can’t criticise properly without understanding, and therefore you need to know (a) the system (the protocols, rules, and how they are used and applied), (b) the refereeing mindset, and (c) the refereeing experience, in order to make valid criticisms, rather than just wildly swinging around with invalid ones that then serve to undermine your point, justly or not.

[WeeJoe]

The longer it takes for them to release the audio, the more rumours will spread. If there was itching to hide they could have handed it over on Sunday night

[Quicksand]

@redalways

In my mind at least, I think @Limiescouse’s point is that you can’t criticise properly without understanding, and therefore you need to know (a) the system (the protocols, rules, and how they are used and applied), (b) the refereeing mindset, and (c) the refereeing experience, in order to make valid criticisms, rather than just wildly swinging around with invalid ones that then serve to undermine your point, justly or not.

Where he falls down is in his view that he is the only one on here who understands or interprets correctly.

I am convinced that Liverpool are aware of the a,b and c you outline. Yet they see merit in appealing the Jones red card.

If we accept the view that @Limiescouse offers on that red, well the club wouldn’t appeal?
BTW, I think the appeal will fail. Not on merit of appeal but because they cannot make matters worse.

[Retro_Helix]

https://twitter.com/HenryJackson87/status/1708962506675245064

[Sportbilly1966]

Prior to moving to NZ, 16 years ago I used to be referee instructor, unfortunately the refs then were just given a rule book to learn and memorise.

I was lucky as I worked as a Physical education officer in the prison service and had the use of the sportshall, where I could take a more practical approach with the would be referees and go through various challenges and examples of what constitutes a foul, a push, even discussing leaving the ball to play the man and we would chat about varioys interpretations.

The best ones were mostly those who had played the game as they, not only could recognise fouls etc but also had experience of being in similar situations and could control players better with their manner and knowledge.

I know when I left they were introducing videos as a tool to recognise foul play, but without having played the game or sport in general they just don’t understand the nuances of what is a contact sport.

So just knowing the rules verbatim and even taking heed of the IFAB interpretations isn’t enough in a sport that is played at high speed where players are challenging for the ball, you sometimes need common sense with a nuanced knowledge of the game.