Racism and all the bad -isms

I remember, quite a few years ago, getting stopped and searched by the police. It was at Whitechapel station and would have been around 2004/2005 ish. I was living in Stepney at the time, and on my to my local Amnesty group meeting.

As I walked towards the barriers, I became aware of a man with a dog walking towards me and looking quite threatening/intense. Thinking he was probably a weirdo, I sped up but he cut across me, and holding the collar of his dog forced it’s snout between my legs.

“What the fuck are you doing”, I said.

“Sorry, can you step to one side with me please sir”

“No, get your dog away from me”

At this point, he took out an ID card and explained that he was an undercover officer conducting an investigation, using stop and search powers. He then asked if I could explain why the dog had made a positive identification of an illegal substance on my person.

“The dog you just held by the collar and forced snout first into my balls”?

“That’s a positive identification sir. Can you explain why the dog might have ID’d you?”

“I don’t have any drugs on me if that’s what you mean”.

“So why did you evade the dog?”.

“Do you mean why did I walk a bit quicker when a big scary man with a big scary dog started walking threateningly towards me?”

“Do you can’t account for evading the dog?”

“I thought you were going to attack me, and to be fair you did push a dog’s snout into my balls”

“OK, I’m going to need you to come with me”

At this point he quoted some legal stuff I can’t remember, and I thought it best to just do what he wanted.

I was led to what looked like a staff locker room in the station, and asked to sit on a bench. There were around twenty other people sitting on the benches with me, mostly about my age, mostly men, but all of them (other than me) black.

I got chatting to a lad about my age who was sitting next to me. He was used to the process, and he described being stopped maybe about once or twice a month, sometimes more.

“It’s not surprising that I’m the only white lad here” I said.

“That’s because every now and then, when they realise they’ve pulled too many niggers, they go and get a white one”. He chuckled at this, and it made me laugh too.

“Can I ask you, did they push the dog at you? Cos, it really felt to me like the guy spotted me first and dragged it towards me. The dog didn’t seem that bothered”

“The dog can’t tell shit! Everyone is carrying drugs if they’ve got money in their pocket. And are you telling me all these white guys coming home from their offices and banks haven’t been on the blow at lunch?”

He also advised me not to give them any cheek. He had a few friends who’d got drug convictions after giving shit back to the police, where some coke they swore they had nothing to do with had mysteriously been discovered in their bag.

Eventually the police officer in the rubber gloves got round to me and asked me to turn out my pockets, which I did, and rifled through my bag. There were no drugs to be found. None on my new friend either. And as far as I could tell, no drugs on any other other people in the room too.

I was led out of the room by another officer and back to the station, where I was given a processing document as a souvenir. Before I was released, Given I was a gobby little shit, I thought I’d push back a little.

“Can I ask a question?”

“Sure,“ she said.

“What do you think the dog identified on me, given I didn’t have any drugs?”

“Could be anything really,” she said. “Bank notes usually have traces of cocaine on them, so it could be that. They also really like almonds”.

“Right. But if the dog is responding to bank notes, almonds and whatever else. You’d think that you’d be pulling in random people. Little old ladies. White collar professionals. Y’know”

“Yeah, but we have to take the dog to someone who fits the profile and see if they make a positive ID”.

“So you choose who to target”.

“Yes, but the dog has to make the ID”.

“So how do you decide who to target”.

“Erm…it’s usually just if people look suspicious. Young men who fit the profiling”

“So, I’ve just been in a room with twenty lads. All of them black, and you’re telling me that the dogs will react if they can sniff money or almonds. So don’t you think you might be bringing your own biases into the picture here.

There was a lengthy pause.

“The dog makes the positive ID”. She said. And then closed the door.

Now I’ve come to see this as quite a funny story. It has happened to me exactly once. But imagine this shit happened to you monthly, or even weekly. It would stop getting funny and start getting annoying very quickly.

I’m not sure what been ‘law abiding’ has to do with anything here, given the hassle and inconvenience that black people go through every day because the police think they just look like the wrong sort. For many black people it isn’t a case of the innocent have nothing to fear, and if they keep their nose clean they’ll be left alone. This isn’t their experience.

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I think what we can deduce from this is that dogs are fucking racist. Amirite?

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Not really. I think they like sniffing balls.

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or they’re just cunts

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Similar story I guess, I once asked why I kept getting stopped and interrogated in airports. “You’re a well dressed white guy, we have to tick all the boxes” etc.

But to your point, if you had nothing to hide (other than going to an amnesty meeting), grim though the experience was, doesn’t exactly disadvantage your long term prospects. If it happened weekly, still not going to stop you doing whatever you were going to do if sufficiently determined. “I couldn’t pass my A Levels because the police stopped me once a week” really doesn’t fly. I’d just stay home if it started to piss me off.

I won’t post a link to black on black knife crime (as an example) as we all know it’s horribly evil stuff. Nothing to do with race, again as we know. But that doesn’t alter the fact that it massively affects a specific demographic which is easily targeted.

Exactly my conclusion. Racist canine bastards.

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A mate of mine many years ago was stopped by a policeman on his motorcycle and because he didn’t have any ID on him or in the glovebox he was asked to step out of his car…
My mate(tee total), was well dressed, 2am in the morning, two minutes from his house, nice suburban area…
The copper, aggressive stance and all, shining his torch into the guys eyes said to him…
“Have You Got Anything On You That You Shouldn’t Have…?”
My mate, obviously feeling this copper was someone he couldn’t reason with anyway, replied…
“Yes, My Brothers Socks…”
Unbeknown to my mate, the copper had already called for back-up before he had approached his car… The copper told his mates… “We Have Got a Right Smart Arse here… Will You Take him In For Me”
My mate spent a night in the cells, searched thoroughly if you know what I mean… his car had been impounded, which cost money to retrieve… and had obviously been turned inside out with carpets, spare wheel, glove box etc… then just left in disarray for him to put everything back…
This story resonates because some earlier posts had mentioned that police are not recruited because of their high intelligence, but more the opposite for their ability to follow orders without question.
If the copper had phrased his question more appropriately, and had communicated better, then the episode would not have escalated… Makes me wonder how many other times poor intelligence/oratory skills from the police have resulted in many innocents being convicted…!

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I think profiling is a necessary, albeit highly problematic, tool in policing. It wouldn’t need to be used at all if there were more police on the streets.

Profiling for stop and search etc and the like is only necessary because the police’s resources have to be directed at the demographic most likely to be carrying a knife, possessing drugs, etc. But the very fact that profiling exists simply evidences how much our society remains divided on racial lines. How certain ethnicities remain disadvantaged. I don’t believe profiling itself is racist, rather it is a measure of the disparities that exist in society.

Why is it that a higher proportion of those in prison are black than in the general population? Why is a higher proportion of violent crime committed by black men? Is it because a higher proportion of black men are caught? Possibly. But most likely it is because a higher proportion of black men find themselves in disadvantaged societies with little prospect of upward social mobility. Just being born in certain areas will make it more likely that your life will be impacted by crime.

These areas of social deprivation need to be the focus of investment and attention. Sons and daughters need supporting. Make it not about how the next generation can “get out” but how these whole communities can be raised up. Make it so that those in prison having committed violent crimes have proper realistic alternative life-choices when released, rather than expecting things to be different when they return to their deprived, disadvantaged, forgotten communities, this time with criminal records, expecting things to turn out differently for them this time.

Put more police on the streets, increase community liaison, trust, confidence, scrap profiling, invest in urban communities, provide vocational training, apprenticeships, family support, drug rehabilitation programs, education about gun and knife crime and the damaging legacies it leaves, encourage businesses to relocate to these areas, improve community services.

Sure. These things take time, and need work, they need funding too. But you could do all of this simply by scrapping HS2 or asking Dido to return half the money she’s been given for test, track and trace and telling her to start being better at her job or fuck off.

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No it doesn’t. But the point of the story, other than to confirm I am in fact a lippy little twat, is that my experience was singular. It hasn’t happened since. It probably won’t happen again.

The point is that here we have a policy that has been long known to target and discriminate against black boys. It clearly did back then and it does now.

To the black lad I got talking to, it was a regular occurrence, and of course that experience is going to shape your interactions with society.

You have been able to live your live largely untroubled by the notion that you can’t trust the police, that they aren’t out to get you in some way. And if that’s the police, what is the rest of society like - employers, universities, etc.

And here we come to the point where you don’t understand privilege.

A black lad should not have to be more determined than a white lad. They should not have to work harder, maker more sacrifices, whatever.

Of course they could, and many do. But they shouldn’t have to and that’s the point.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SUNDJT9DY

Written over 45yrs ago… So sad to see things have hardly changed.!

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I’ve only been pulled over by the police four times. Twice I was driving. One was for a misdemeanour I had no idea was a misdemeanour (ignorance is no defence though!). Second was because they wanted to check I wasn’t breaking lockdown.

The other two occasions was when I was at university. A mate of mine was driving and he had some joints in the car. Got pulled over due to a faulty rear light, was shitting himself that they’d search the car. The police took his details but let him carry on, no search. Phew.

The remaining occasion was also at university. Another mate of mine had picked me up to take me to snooker practice. He’s black. On the way to snooker practice we got pulled over for no discernible reason whatsoever. Police just said that they’d had reports of suspicious activity about a car that matched his car’s description. Sure, sure. Officer was pretty rude to him and then asked me to corroborate his ‘story’. “Yeah, we’re going to snooker practice down Strykers”. At this the officer seemed to be satisfied and let us go on our way.

Like all it took was for the word of the white guy and everything was ok. I think this was my first experience of being pulled over and I was quite taken aback. Solomon could obviously see I was shocked but said, kind of matter-of-factly, that it happened to him all the time. He told me it helped that I was in the car with him as normally the police would have him get out of the vehicle and turn out his pockets. :rage:

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That sackful of puppies you were lifting over the edge of the bridge had to start yapping as the police car pulled up…

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Hah. Yeah, I should probably say what it was for before people start putting their imagination to use! I was travelling home from a late night out in London, driving down a deserted motorway at 2 or 3 in the morning. There were maybe three cars on the section of motorway I was driving on. For some reason, however, the overhead gantries were showing red crosses over lanes that were otherwise open. No cones, nothing. Totally clear. Those weren’t in the test when I passed my driving test back in the mid 90s. At the time I didn’t know what they meant - and there were no physical signs on the road itself that would have helped me deduce what they meant.

Now, of course, I know that it means that lane is closed and shouldn’t be used. I just carried on driving down them for a few hundred metres with the police car following me. After about 20 seconds I got self-conscious and pulled across to the slow lane and about 20 seconds later they put their lights on. :man_facepalming:

So yeah, don’t drive down motorway lanes if there’s a red cross over them, even if its early in the morning and the road is totally clear. £60 and 3 points for that.

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Interesting theory that I came across of late with regard to policing.

Basically, they have become more aggressive of late and that is in no large part due to the fact that they simply dont have the numbers to deal with disturbances anymore. Better to go in ham fisted and shut it down before it escalates.

I dont think it applies to every situation discussed here but there seems to be some logic to it as the policing (I call it Patel Power) bill works it way into law.

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I can believe that. I’ve noticed a much more aggressive tone in their recent communications. Stuff like, “you’re not going to sleep well at night” (re the rioters who the police are tracking down) or “my gang’s bigger than your gang, there’s 32,000 in mine”. I mean, wtf?

The government will say that the bill is being introduced to provide the police with the powers that they’ve asked for. But, as you rightly point out, maybe they’re asking for them because they’re under-resourced and policing with a lighter touch would require more boots on the ground?

Not an area I have done much reading on but I would guess that is probably not correct.

It was only another persons theory. They were apparently quite active on the protesting front on BLM etc. and long before that and have noticed an upturn in aggression. I couldn’t say if it was true or otherwise to be honest.

Unfortunately not. Apart from the fact that both are annoying and have effectively contributed to ruining their respective parts one still remains likeable. The other does not.

The other “theory” is that they are simply following orders from above.

Just throwing the ideas out there.

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Yes, preferrably as a collective. The PFA or FifPro should organise a mass withdrawal from all social media by all players (other sports too) in protest. Make it for 48 hours at first then stretch it if the media companies continue to do nothing.

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I think that now that the PFA is under new executive leadership we’re going to see it take up much more of an activist position. Something that it hasn’t really been since the days of Jimmy Guthrie and Jimmy Hill.

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