Can you name one comedian who this has actually happened to?
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my first reactions are that this is not real.
not as in, it didnt happen, as in the whole thing is a pantomime.
hijacking such a serious issue for pumped up ratings.
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Here are 3 for starters -
Kevin Hart
Roseanne Barr
Daniel Tosh.
And no I do not condone anything they have said or done. But they were all canceled as a result of public statements. Kevin Harts offense occurred 10 years previously - but he still lost his gig at the Oscars. You cant draw a line and say jokes about this topic are perfectly acceptable and then ten years later say - “we have moved the line and therefore jokes you said ten years ago needs to be punished” Harts comments ten years ago barely raised a murmur.
I agree somewhat with this - Netflix certainly would not be unhappy with the additional publicity. I think though we need to question the motivations of the author of those disgusting tweets - which are infinitely more offensive than anything Chapelle said. Why is nobody saying that they should be fired? Why is nobody “punching down” on that person?
FF to 6.10 for the relevance to this discussion - wise words as usual from Stephen Fry describing just how infantile this has become.
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Daniel’s Tosh biggest controversy occurred in 2012. His most successful endeavor, his tv show, continued unaffected for another 8 years until it was retired because the format had become dated, while continuing to tour and make other productions.
Keving Hart lost 1 oppoirtunity and otherwise has had his career continue completely unaffected
Rossanne is mentally ill and was a repeat offender of stuff that is way beyond the pale. Her ousting from her own show was as much about her own cast members as the public backlash
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And so it’s begun
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I haven’t really had time to answer this today, but all I’ll say is if Jon thinks Kevin Hart’s career has been almost ended by cancel culture, no-one seems to have told him, as he seems to continue to produce 1-2 mainstream Hollywood releases a year, and a similar number of TV Shows and specials.
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Yes, you are correct - cancel culture has not affected them at all. Kevin Hart will undoubtedly be asked to host the Oscars in the next few years. The Canadian comic I posted about above has not had his career/life impacted whatsoever by years of court action over jokes he made on stage.
There are no comedians complaining about this culture of censorship - Jennifer Saunders, Stephen Fry, Ricky Gervais, Bill Maher, Dave Chapelle, Bill Burr, Joe Rogan, Rowan Atkinson John Cleese, Terry Gilliam, and on and on have all remained completely silent about attempts to censor them and their contemporaries haven’t they? They are all imagining it.
As Stephen Fry mentions in the above clip - this debate has become infantile - it cannot be discussed logically. Just because someone agrees with Dave Chapelle does that mean they are transphobic? That is an illogical and childish conflation to make. Certainly, Kaitlin Jenner supports Chapelles arguments and concerns, but then I guess she must be transphobic.
Fortunately, these bullshit ideas are coming to an end, Dave Chapelle is currently on a sold-out arena tour. The public obviously do not want him canceled or censored - they want to listen to him. Critics of him would be better served attacking those that commit and threaten actual violence against the Asian community for instance. The silence on that is deafening,
A quote from Ricky Gervais - who incidentally has just had a FB post removed in the last day or so, concerning his strong opposition to trophy hunting, because his comments were deemed offensive by someone. The complaint is not that trophy hunting is offensive,but that what Gervais says about it is deemed offensive. JHC.
“A man has been convicted in a UK court of making a joke that was deemed “grossly offensive”. If you don’t believe in a person’s right to say things that you might find “grossly offensive”, then you don’t believe in Freedom of Speech.”
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Terry Gilliam has just had his show at the Old Vic theatre cancelled, because theatre staff felt ‘uncomfortable’ about him appearing there. The poor darlings.
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It seems that Ballance is the tip of the racist Yorkshire iceberg.
Even bigger names are said to be implicated.
That could only mean someone like Malan, Root, Bairstow…
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surely it was just mad bantz?
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What’s worrying is that though the senior members may or may not have used that “endearing” term to their “closest friend”, they did however preside over and/or acquiesce within that culture.
This has parallels with the Aussie ball tampering situation where though Smith wasn’t the instigator in chief, he did in fact turn a blind eye… will the same happen here - will Root have to fall on a sword?
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Ballance has to change, he can no longer go back to his old ways, he needs to be a New Ballance.
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Yorkshire CC are taking a hammering financially. Sponsors that have walked away or speaking to YCC;
- Emerald Group
- Tetleys (the bitter) will not extend beyond the end of their current deal
- Yorkshire Tea - with immediate effect
- First Leeds - going to hold talks - shame they didn’t just pull the plug
- David Lloyds - ended the relationship - was put on hold when the whole saga started
- Anchor Butter - no longer sponsoring their shirts
Will be interesting to see if the remaining few hang on in there.
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Surely ‘cancel culture’ is an attempt to publicly shame someone/something and to try to point out how horrible you think the actions of someone/something are, until sponsorship/employment of said offender becomes untenable.
For Chappelle, there is a definite attempt being made that has impacted his film at small independent film festivals that are offended/ don’t want to be in spotlight of offended group by associating with him, but public opinion hasn’t swayed enough to really impact Dave at all. But there is definitely a group trying to ‘cancel’ him, and he’s an excellent self promoter, and any publicity is good publicity etc…
The confusing part for me is that if you look at Chappelle’s body of work as a whole, the one unifying theme is an attempt to fight against racism and point out inequalities faced by people of color.
Why he feels he needs to let everyone know that black people have it worse than LGBTQ community is strange. Both groups really want the same thing, and instead of welcoming them into fight for equality his schtick seems to be well, I can’t pretend I’m not black when it’s convenient to me. A bit cringe worthy, and doublely so when compared to the overriding theme of his work as a whole.
A quick side note: I loved the Chappelle show, and thought his latest special was funny, even if it’s confusing to zoom out and wonder why that’s the angle he took. Definitely a comedian that walks up to ‘the line’ and strays over it occasionally. If you watch the entire special, he makes an attempt to rectify everything in it at the end, and don’t think he truly has a problem with LGBTQ community, he just likes crude jokes and seems to take the Jay and Silent Bob approach to criticism from anonymous internet users (obviously that’s just my interpretation).
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If you define cancel culture as something comedians make hay complaining about then yes, it’s a very real issue. If you instead describe it as I’ve seen it described…
…then where is the evidence of that? All the examples you give do not remotely show anything of the sort. The Kevin Hart story is one of him losing one gig while getting unending press of him talking about it while promoting the various other projects he still had going.
I think one of the lessons people should take from the Hart story is the importance of real apologies. the issue with Hart’s past comments didnt start with the Oscars, it was just an issue that increased in wider public awareness as Hart’s profile increased. Over the years, each time the issue was raised with him he refused to apologize. The only change in attitude to the issue he ever expressed was acknowledging he wouldn’t make gay bashing jokes anymore, but even then only because he viewed society had become too sensitive, not because of any growth about the cruelness of the material. By the time he realized he was going to lose out on something he wanted, which was not the result of just one misstep but a repeated history of making these jokes and a refusal to even acknowledge the criticisms of them, he claimed he’d already apologized without ever having apologized. He criticized the LGBTQ community for not accepting someone’s growth without ever having shown the growth. And despite this, other than missing out on one opportunity, his career went on just fine. Multiple films a year, multiple comedy specials, numerous tv production. He continues to be one of the most active performers in Hollywood.
Poor Ricky. I wonder if he’ll ever find work again.
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FWIW, I do think the tendency for people to pile on over SM is a problem. People often do it without knowing anything about the issue and often with far worse history of their own. I think it reveals an ugly realty of the human condition that we all need to be really cautious to not get dragged into. However, referring to all of these issues as cancel culture when in most cases there is little more than a SM pile on, and often where celebrities are concerned, done in a way that can and often is monetized, I just think we need to be more nuanced than talking about it as blithely as is implied with the term cancel culture.
Monica Lewinsky has an excellent new documentary called 15 Minutes of Shame about what I think is the broader issue, one of the internet and SM shaming. I’d call this pile on culture rather than cancel culture. I think one of the things she shows is how the consequences tend to be more real for normal people who get caught up in these issues, not the celebrities who complain about it who rarely suffer real financial or career consequences from it.
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Would Yorkshire Tea be an opportunity for a new sponsor for us? Or maybe Milner’s personal sponsor?
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