Is that so?
This is your post from January 25th, detailing how the owners pissed Klopp off so much that he said something about it publicly.
Point is that nothing is as white and black as you make it out to be. There are nuances and context, which you are mentioning but which you aren’t really taking into account.
The funny thing is that Klopp has, in some ways, been proven right about this. He said ‘we don’t need a fourth one’ because Fabinho can play centre-back - and he has been brilliant at centre-back.
Klopp’s actual words.
You are outrageous!!
So Klopp saying something about the unacceptable situation this winter is somehow him commencing, at the time, about the VvD situation?
This is the point. Even though Klopp had EARLIER said he wanted a fourth senior CB when he didn’t get one he went on the record about how positive it all was. Do you genuinely believe Rafa would do the same?
The version of the story in Epic Swindle is that Barry was the primary target for the summer. At some point Parry came to Rafa and said that the club had been offered Keane for twenty million. Rafa liked the player and greenlit it on the condition that it would not interfere with the pursuit of Barry. After this, the club did some contract renewals before getting round to Barry, at which point Rafa was told the club could not afford the fee for Barry, and his transfer budget had gone on those contract renewals. To say Rafa had a shitfit was an understatement.
Rafa is not without blame.
But on Valencia I think its important to paint the entire story. He was offered a 2 year extension. The club wanted him to stay. It was really hard for Rafa to leave (so teary he could not finish his statement). The club had lots of issues and infighting above Rafa.
Jesus Garcia Pitarch who was the man he clashed with, was sacked (Pitarch also clashed with CEO and former technical secretary). Rafa got one well with technical secretary (Javier Subirats) who was responsible for signing many of the players key to the success of Valenica. He did not get on well with Pitarch who was later brought in, sold players underneath him, and bought in others without his input. Rafa won the league and the UEFA cup with less than 10 million invested in the squad. One of the key reasons Rafa was really unhappy though (understandably) is that in his final season he was left in a situation were 3 of his strikers were sold, the club failed to sign replacements (he wanted Eto from Malaga). Injuries and lack of form left him short up front. He was winning on the shoe string, and the club were cutting rather than investing.
His reputation though was dragged through the mud while at Liverpool. Because he was not like Hodgson. For me that’s a plus rather than a negative. He can be difficult no doubt, he is ruthless and a winner. A tactician rather than a man manager (probably best tactical I have seen) He fights for what is right.He fights for what every club he is at not for personal gain but the club.
Sometimes clubs need managers who don’t pander, drag them out of mediocrity. In fact It’s exactly what Everton need.
Lloret the man who wrote Rafas autobiography (and became close to Rafa) described very well the personal cost to Rafa and the need to repair his reputation after he left.
Not everyone will agree on Rafa (it nearly split TIA at the end) but I am firmly in his camp.
Another story in Epic Swindle is of Rafa going into Martin Broughton’s office and informing him he needed a new left back. Broughton asked what would would be different about this left back than the four other ones he’d churned through in the last few seasons. It’s a fair question, and one that Rafa apparently struggled to answer.
This was always my biggest gripe with Rafa. He absolutely burned through players, and for someone who was adamant he had complete control of the signings, he had a pretty duff record at spending the clubs money. A hell of a lot of his signings were complete busts. They were many occasions where he could and should have made better use of what he had at the club, whether that’s fringe players or youngsters (who in particular rarely got a look in). His desire to want to solve all his problems in the market is the antithesis of Klopp, and suited Rafa’s image as a chess player and strategist rather than a coach.
I don’t think for a second that Rafa would have ever worked well under our current structure. He’s an auteur and wants control of everything football related. Someone said he looked to his scouts. Yes, but they were his scouts and he wanted to be in control of the network. The structure we have now is that player ID is handled by Michael Edwards team and where they intersect with Klopp is that he informs them if the squad need and approves the options they pursue on his behalf. It worked like a dream, because Klopp’s character is to let talented people do their jobs and trust they’ll deliver. Rafa’s instinct is to want to control and manage as much as possible.
This reads like I’m being negative about Rafa - I love the guy. But he was of his time, and as football moves more towards structures where the manager focuses more on coaching and player development rather than scouting and transfers, Rafa is going find fewer clubs where he can do his best work.
I think the Everton experiment is going to end in tears.
So basically a similar situation as Klopp found himself in with Thiago and a 4th CB. Because a deal to sell Alonso then or Wilson now couldn’t be sorted only one of the two targets the manager wanted could be brought in. BTW not to call into question the account of the book but the Barry “saga” was over by June the Keane purchase didn’t happen till the end of July. The two situations show the differences between the two managers ability to work within a structure to me. What happened this summer can be considered more dysfunctional that that Summer. Rafa wanted to use Barry on the left wing, he did get a competent left winger still, Klopp got no CB, and Rafa got to retain and use Alonso whereas Wilson was sent on loan.
Oh and as it was mentioned before Keanes open play goal contributions were better for Liverpool (despite being shifted wide sometimes, brought of the bench a bit and it being his first 6 months at a new club) than his open play record the season before at Spurs. The fact he took some penalties for them and never for us makes it look different and that was also his best season for them and his first six months for us. Hardly a fair comparison.
Far better than anything I’ve wrote in this thread I believe these two pieces, between them, perfectly capture the good and bad points of a man we all love but who would, if only the positives where taken into account, be first on every recruitment list for clubs needing managers but instead finds himself working at places like Newcastle and Everton. Will always love him for what he achieved and wish him happiness but can’t wish him success because of his chosen employer. I also don’t think, personally, that it could ever be right to display a current Everton manager on a Liverpool banner on the Kop but that’s out of my control.
I didn’t know that. I thought he’d largely flopped at Liverpool, and we did well to get £16m for him.
I didn’t want to admit it at the time, because I was solidly in the Rafa Camp, but in retrospect Rafa’s treatment of him was horrible, as Rafa clearly used him, or more accurately didn’t use him, in a power struggle. We might have had a league title that year, if Rafa had swallowed his pride. Torres was certainly running on fumes by March.
And of course to do that to a boyhood red/white/yellow/green/white and black was cruel.
No he wasn’t. Torres was better in the second half of that season than in the first half, he scored against United and Madrid in March.
Both he and Gerrard suffered too many injuries for us to win the title, I don’t think it’s any more complicated than that considering the depth up front United had.
But we sold what depth we had due to politics.
This left back bit is basically nonsense. Do you think Rafa really wanted Josemi and Nuñuz for example, or Kronkamp?
Sorry lots of people forgetting the full picture. Rafa burned through players? More like trading to get upgrades. It’s like trying to buy a bargain then selling it on for a slightly higher price. That’s what Rafa was reduced to.
You really think Rafa was stuck for an answer?
Rafa wasn’t perfect, I’m sure he could and is stubborn and I don’t think he’d be what need if Klopp left.
But, let’s not rewrite history on his time at LFC.
And there is no comparison to the set up Klopp works under to the one Rafa had to.
My impression on Klopp and Tiago at the time was very much that we chose Thiago over a 4th CB and that at the time Klopp was very much on board with the decision, agreed with it and was likely the final voice in that decision. He may not have liked that finances dictated it had to be a choice mind, but he has always been a players I have over players I can buy manager.
Whereas Rafa felt lied to by the club over Keane and Barry - neither of whom really proved to be the level of player to take the club forward btw
The key difference was the communication and relationship with the owners and the transfer team.
Are you genuinely comparing the absolute shit that was Robbie Keane to Thiago? Just wow.
As I said, you are outrageous.
I don’t know about this story, but at the time our left backs under Rafa had been: Insua (ultimately not good enough, was he), Dossena (see previous, although this one is arguably on Rafa/whoever brought him in, even though he was rather cheap), Aurelio (hopelessly broken), Riise (we know what happened here), and Arbeloa (who was brought in to play right back!).
I think at this point Rafa may well have thought it was useless arguing with another non-footballing man, who seemed to be challenging him rather than actually trying to work something out. This is purely my speculation as to why he couldn’t answer, though, and not based on any factual account.
Yet most of those signings were then sold on for a profit to fund the better ones.
How many of those youngsters even got a look in anywhere else? The quality of players the academy was producing then is a far cry from what it is now, and even now we don’t often come across players of the calibre we need.
And yet when he was manager he was often cited for bringing out the best in ihs players. Gerrard even makes such a statement himself.
I think this is a bit far a stretch, no? He’s worked comfortably well under such systems in most of his other clubs, so why would it be different?
Rafa’s transfer numbers:
During Rafael Benitez’ six-year tenure as manager of Liverpool, he oversaw the purchase of 59 players and the depature of 72. Approximately £230,000,000 was spent on players under the leadership of Benitez at an average of approximately £3,900,000 per player, whilst approximately £162,000,000 was recouped from players sales. This equates to a net spend of approximately £68,000,000 on transfers, at an average of £11,300,000 per year.
