That’s not the point of contention. @RedOverTheWater said @Klopptimist misinterpreted the bible. He didn’t.
You started off suggesting Hitler was an atheist, and it went downhill from there.
He was replying to the ‘universal truth’ post, which I notice you didn’t call out.
I’ve enjoyed reading various perspectives in this thread, but wild generalisations and oversimplifications make genuine discourse challenging
1 Like
That’s mischaracterizing it. Important context is needed.
I spoke up because Klopptimist said that atheists know the Bible better than Christians. It was another arrogant atheist statement.
1 Like
Indeed. He was a well known loving Christian person, full of peace and good will toward all mankind.
Thank God there’s a game on tonight
It may give time for some quiet reflection and meditation.
4 Likes
Possibly, but I have to say that my experience of talking about the bible with Christians is also that most of them are phenomenally ignorant about the contents of their own book. I’ll stop short of making that a sweeping generalisation but it’s definitely my experience, for what that’s worth.
That’s not how I watch matches 
The simple truth - one that is arrogantly overlooked by atheists - is that ALL groups have it in them to commit horrible acts. It points to something fundamentally flawed in the human condition.
Atheism offers me no answer to that.
Instead, all I’ve seen atheists offer here is some shitty point scoring. Bwaaark… look at what this group did!
It’s a naive take on it.
1 Like
We’ve already done this. He was a Christian.
You might argue he wasn’t a good Christian, but he definitely wasn’t an atheist, as you suggested.
It’s a shame your Christian teachings didn’t imbue your with the humility to admit you were wrong.
I have read (glancing reads or engrossing) the English translations of the Bible , Qur’an as well as the Hindu scriptures. While I wouldn’t be able to remember John chapter 2 verse 17 etc etc … I do have some sort of understandings on what those books are about… And I am an agnostic whose leaning towards atheism. I won’t ever be a hardcore athiest(as that in my mind is no different from a religious person who aims to convert the disbelievers into believers)
1 Like
I Believe in Klopp and as such don’t get worked up when watching our games.
This is exactly the arrogance he was referring to.
Statements by Hitler:
“Christianity is an invention of sick brains” (13 October, 1941)
“So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death,” (14 October 1941).
Whether he was or wasn’t doesn’t really add much to the discussion. But your statement highlights the certainty in some atheists that often mirrors religious fundamentalism
2 Likes
And to offer my perspective on the conversations I have had with atheists, it rarely unearths an original thought or idea.
They tend to see themselves as more educated and enlightened than people of a religious persuasion, and some may have even read a little Hitchens or Dawkins, as they tend to be the prophets who wrote the revered canon.
That might be where some of the group think comes from, as the same sort of points are regurgitated. It might also be where the arrogance comes from, as the pair of them were/are sneering and unpleasant tits.
I rarely see any humility in the atheists I’ve talked to, and there’s little to no willingness to seriously countenance why someone might have a sincere religious belief.
Instead, they just want to argue the case, to one degree or another, that people with a sincere religious faith are stupid.
In this thread I have pointed out numerous scientists and mathematicians, throughout history, who were people of sincere religious faith. They made an enormous contribution to our understanding of the world, and still do.
Their faith is a core part of who they are and how they see the world, and it isn’t something that is boxed off and separate from the other, more rational parts of their lives, which is what an atheist would have me believe, as they can’t understand how a religious person might also be an eminent scientist, for example.
At that point the atheist tries to steer the conversation toward Sky Fairies and the like, as that is comfortable ground from which to attack religion.
1 Like
He made those statements in 1941, when he had become disillusioned with orthodox Christianity and was throwing himself into Norse mythology and weird esoteric cultist ideas.
He rose to power as a Christian.
But he was never - as you still won’t admit - an atheist. That’s indisputable.
I’ve never said he was. Like you, I’ve no idea what he was, apart from an evil bastard
Who’s generalising now?
But we can be sure about what he wasn’t.
From what we can tell, the strength of his Christianity went up and down through his life.
He was strongly Christian throughout his rise to power, described himself as a Christian and claimed to be doing gods work. He described Jesus as an ‘Aryan Warrior’ and expressed envy of the Protestant Church’s privileged position in England. A lot of his rationale for the persecution of Jews were that they were the ‘Killers of Christ’.
He boasted about ridding Germany of atheist intellectuals, declared atheism as an enemy of the state, and had atheists executed.
Later in his life he sought to reform Christianity to make it more sympathetic to Nazi ideals, and rework the doctrine to expressly support this.
Finally, Hitler had always had an interest in mysticism, mythology and occultism. This bubbled up occasionally, but really came to the fore at the end of his life.
About the only thing I can find that even gets close to the idea that Hitler was an atheist, was the private mutterings of some of his generals as he dabbled with paganism. Obviously paganism isn’t atheism, but there you go.
So while Hitlers faith was a bit of a confused mess, he did by most accounts lean very heavily into Christianity, and we can say with absolute certainty that he was not atheist.
Why does this matter? Because it’s still a myth that continually gets coughed up in any discussion like this, and it simply isn’t true. There isn’t any conversation I’ve had with a religious person that hasn’t at some point resorted to this untruth, including this one with @RedOverTheWater, who still can’t quite bring himself to admit he was wrong. While accusing me and @Klopptimist of arrogance.
Shall we do Stalin now? 
Lol. No. Let’s do the example I asked about when I reentered the thread.
China. This is an official atheist government. Systematically destroying the religious Uighur people.
Not very nice, is it? Where’s the sophisticated irreligious enlightenment? I thought atheism was taking us beyond these barbaric ways?
On Hitler I’m happy to say that whatever religious belief an atheist might try to ascribe to him, it’s more complicated than that. I’m not aware of any Christian who would hold Hitler up as an example of, or representative of, the religion. Hitler used religion to suit, as other evil people have done.
I thought I had conceded the point before, but if not, I am happy to state that Hitler was not a consistent, dyed in the wool, atheist; just as I would state that nothing he did represented anything good that I see in Christianity.
If we applied a simple test, according to the teaching of Jesus - by their fruit you will know them - then nobody could seriously claim Hitler was a Christian. If they wanted to stick to their guns on that, they are continuing the discussion in bad faith.
Interesting. I didn’t know all of this
2 Likes