Roberto FIRMINO: 2020/21

It very much depends from player to player.

When they’re entering their 30’s, it’s like they should asssess themselves (together with the club, though that’s not always in coleration) every year. It’s something Lampard mentioned and it worked for him (though he’s a case who really needed to work on himself constantly, one of the best combination of intelligence and hard work).

We have players who lasted longer than normal, but we also have players who we thought would age well, but they didn’t. And people probably remember them less than the other more positive examples. Rooney is one who springs to mind immediately, I was convinced he would age well. Casillas also, to give a different example in terms of position on the pitch (again, it’s too lazy to say that every goalkeeper is best past his or deep into his 30’s).

Also, sometimes it’s not only totally linked to the player. Depends on the situation at the club or in the team. Let’s not forget that Stevie had a very rough period in his very early 30’s, physically and mentally. He talked about it. I don’t think a lot of people had in mind that he could play like he did near the end (last season aside when opponents started man marking him more, but that also has to do with Rodgers’ tactics, he again performed well when we flipped the formation to 3 at the back and he was pushed further forward as an attacking midfielder).

For now, I’m of the opinion that he’s still more important to Klopp and our footballing staff than he is to the majority of fans. Perhaps Klopp himself might take it too far at some point with him. But that’s also why it’s not a one-man decision anymore. We’ll see first how we evolve, what decisions we make in the next 12 months or so and how certain individuals are during that time.

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I don’t think Firmino is finished, I just think his effectiveness as the false 9 in our 433 is becoming diminished.

I think we might be approaching a point when a change/evolution of our playing style formation is required/desired. At that stage the question becomes what his new role would be.

Could he evolve and be part of that new change? Would we be squeezing him in to make him fit? Would that be best for him or for us?

I think if it weren’t for the Pandemic he’d be at peak value still despite our form issues. He’d still be a high value asset if the decision to move him on is taken. I’m just not sure we can evolve the squad, make him fit somehow and keep hold of all our top players.

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Mané’s take on Bobby:

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Estimated reading time 2 minutes, that’s about how many minutes a game that we see the old Firmino.

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That’s the spirit

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Mbappe and Sancho are both way ahead of Elliott in terms of class, even after taking into account age differences.

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True; however, neither of them was a Liverpool player the last time I checked.

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I really hope we give Jota time it seems like he is suggested as our saviour.

Anyhow our team should be in it’s peak with several players 28-32 and yet they all look like they are cream crackered. Problem is one solution doesn’t solve the issue, I think playing players in their positions is the first and then tactics, Firmino, Gini and others need some serious rest time and I hope Jota brings that spark that difference to the team.

I think scape goating one or two players when (bar the RBL game) I’ve literally struggled to pick a man of the match, I don’t think I’ve picked one for weeks now, I think i picked one for Leicester but didn’t bother on Saturday or for Man City, let alone for Brighton or Burnley.

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Which means you must buy someone. Neither Elliott or Jones are Sancho/Foden-style generational talents. They cannot carry the team.

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Sancho a generational talent? Let’s see if he can make it in the PL first.

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Can Firmino play as a center forward!

I know he doesn’t score many goals, but that’s more due to (aside from this season) his role than his abilities. What if we reverse the roles! Instead of Firmino playing the role of creator, manipulator and distractor to allow Mane & Salah to move into scoring positions; Mane and Salah plays in a way that allows Firmino to move into spaces in the box.

I think Jota was deployed in a similar way in the games he played.

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I think that would impact on Salah and Mane scoring without guaranteeing Firmino gets more goals. It wouldn’t be like flicking a switch. He’s been playing a certain way with certain teammates around him for years. It’ll be instinctive by now. He might well stop doing those things that take him away from goal eventually but it wouldn’t be an instant change and his sharpness in front of goal socks these days. Actually a lot of our chances are going through him right now already simply because opposition play it that way, its better to almost ignore him and concentrate on stopping the other two. If Liverpool are going to get an opening at your goal you’re damn sure picking Firmino for it to land with. Voluntarily making a change to increase that doesn’t seem like a great idea to me. It may have long term benefits but I think we would suffer in the short term. Salah being top scorer in the league is the only thing keeping us within touching distance of top 4. If anything I’d be doing whatever changes are required to push his chances and opportunities to score!

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Presently we are too predictable and Firmino is failing to conjure the magic that makes Salah and Mane tick. You are assuming it will be negative because Firmino is struggling.

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Not really.

There’s a reason why they played to their strengths in last years.

Mane proved with time that he can both attack spaces and also create (maybe he’d never be quite the goalscorer Salah is, but I don’t think Salah would ever have the playmaking ability of Mane, not to mention Bobby). Jota is showing signs of the same, though we’ll see what’s his ceiling as a front 3 starter when/if he becomes that soon.

I don’t think it makes sense. We don’t have to change everything to the core. We can’t.

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It’s not guaranteed to stop Firmino struggling though and may impact Salah, the only part of the front 3 currently being effective, by moving him further away from goal and giving him a new responsibility.

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Salah will or should remain in that role for the next couple of years (maybe not all those remaining years with us, that’s a different topic). Right sided wide forward, goalscorer. Not a #9, not a winger in a 4-2-3-1 (where you’re basically part of the ‘4’ midfielders and have to work defensively), not a #10. And then how long he lasts, he lasts.

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It’s not. We will not be making any radical changes. Firmino has scored many goals and Mane & Salah have been the core providers. I’m suggesting Firmino don’t drop deep and stays available to offer Mane, Salah or others a channel.

But Firmino has to drop at least a little deep because that’s what disrupts the opposition back 4 and creates space for Salah and Mane to move into. Admittedly there are two problems with that in that he’s been dropping too deep and Prem league defenders have learnt to ignore him and allow him the ball because he’s not much of a goal threat from outside the box. That means their back line isn’t getting disrupted and they have more time and energy to stop Salah and Mane getting into dangerous situations nearly completely negating Mane as a goal threat. Luckily even that isn’t enough to fully stop Salah or we’d really be screwed.

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You could say to Bobby that he doesn’t drop deep and tries to be more of a finisher/poacher, but he’s not good at that. Plus, we’d also miss his linking up game, as much as people take it for granted or think that it’s not so important. It’s not black and white of course, but I don’t think swapping that would make us better or even confuse the opponent enough.

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At the moment he is not linking up neither.

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