2 Likes
This works well.
Much better than links and you can just paste the hyperlink below/above whateverâŚ
In Thread A, the Man City thread we are united in our desire for City to be punished. Relegated, stripped of titles, financial ruin. We only vary in just how much we want to happen to them.
In Thread X, the OP has called for the banning of the use of Musks vehicle on the forums. Simple?
Instead,
We are looking for ways to circumnavigate the loss of information, rather than deciding on what the OP called for. Ban X.
Of course its a complex issue. The Mods may have a particular view, which in fairness needs to be considered.
The voracious appetite for transfer news needs to be fed? Or does it? I mean, the Unreliable thread is an almagamation of ageism, curry and very little on transfer rumours. Do we really need X for cooking a korma, or calling @cynicaloldgit an old fella?
Of course there is need for discussion. If we observe a democratic process, then its a simple vote? Post discussion.
The Mods may have legal or compelling reasons not to ban, otherwise we all get to make our minds up.
Musk has promoted extreme right wing views, in my opinion. I observe the requirement for free speech. Not hate speech.
Ban the fucker.
Vote YES.
If we are voting.
2 Likes
Good post. If there were a vote, Iâd obviously advocate a ban too. But @ISMF has his reasons to retain X on the forums.
3 Likes
Itâs not quite the same because there is content on X that is provided by 3rd party journalists that is of value. TBH, the only content on X that I now read is from links on this (and similar) forums. If someone wants to go to the trouble of curating the odd gem out of the morass of shite, then best of luck to them.
I just think that there are other sources for that information that work better with this forum.
4 Likes
Ok
I suppose if we cannot or will not ban X, we can make individual choices.
I never quote from X anyway.
From now on I wonât open any links from X on the forums.
4 Likes
Thatâs what I do since some time. The less contact with this cesspit, the better.
1 Like
Only time i have anything to do with X is in TAN
2 Likes
Itâs phenomenally useful for real time eye witness news and photos. Transfer rumours not so much.
1 Like
serious question hereâŚ
what useful realtime news do you get off X that cant wait?
im thinking things like weather reports can waitâŚif im stuck in the bush in fire season im waiting for offcial info, not twitter or X or anythingâŚsame with storm warnings etcâŚaxe murderer on the lose? id probably just rely on local facebook pages or networksâŚ
the more i think on it, the more i think anything that cant wait for verification, wouldnt be suitable to be trusted to X anywaysâŚ
happy to be proven wrongâŚ
4 Likes
The problem is we live in a world weâre traditional media is dying. Honestly itâs years since I have bought a newspaper, I find often TV news coverage to be shallow.
Sources that I once took as factual may have now been tainted by billionaires or becoming opinion pieces as that sells better.
Take the war in Gaza. Most government support and that of the media reflected views of Israel. The right to protect itself. Social media largely carried the counter view until recently. There is a dramatic swing is seen between age and views for the conflict. Most people agree driven by media (TikTok, twitter vs TV news and newspapers etc).
If we take the Ukraine thread. I think I would struggle to find a source anywhere better on the internet not just in terms of real time info but depth. Whilst there was loads of media and attention early on. Itâs now yesterdayâs news. However there are other things occurring like morale, new weapons, or criticism you donât often hear. You often hear country X pledged Y. Itâs not often you see a newspaper actually follow up on what was actually delivered.
I think that depth also goes to players. Not many of us follow South American. There is not enough media attention for a 17 year old kid none of us have head about before. Social media allows for that niche. Tim Vickery though might make a tweet, even if thereâs not enough for him to write a story for the bbc.
There is of a lot not to like about twitter. But a sad reality is that it is the main media outlet of the world. Even big corporations like the BBC will often tweet hours before there is a news story.
4 Likes
To give a use case of where time is important.
Letâs say there is a major incident on the pitch. If I want to see that tackle from multiple angles and make my own mind up. The only way is to look on twitter.
There are times where the TV coverage has been misleading, I have disagreed with commentators, itâs happened to quickly to make a judgement. Or I have missed it entirely and it didnât even make MOTD but everyone on here is talking about it.
Often a debate has been sorted by someone posting a video from a new angle.
In the great scheme of things waiting a day or two does not matter. But in that moment it does matter.
1 Like
I guess that is verging dangerously on a general philosophical reflection on what the debates should be based on. Instantaneous reaction, even if the information is not that vital and is less reliable? Or waiting to find out the full picture?
2 Likes
I suppose everything can wait. But for pretty much instant onsite info, itâs brilliant.
I couldnât agree more with this.
In the immediate aftermath of the Southport murders, Social Media was full of people loudly proclaiming that âWE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOWâ.
And Iâm reading this and thinking âDo you though?â It seems a bit of a misreading of the situation to think your right to be a nosey, gossipy bitch overrides the families right to privacy, the policeâs right to conduct an investigation, and even the perpetrator and their familyâs right to some degree of process and fairness.
5 Likes
The match thread is exactly that, debate on instantaneous reaction. Highly emotional, reactionary and subjective truths. Those match threads are both the best and worst of TAN.
The reason I am so hesitant is because I do so how it is used on TAN in a positive way including
OPTA/Match/Club Stats
Press Conference videos (Pre match and Post match)
Quotes on specific player injuries
Goals (both Liverpool and other clubs)
Historical videos
Match clips/replays of incidents (fouls, offsides)
Transfer rumours
Club news (picture player in stands, switched kits, FSG etc)
Jokes
Politics/Climate change/war threads
Quotes from journalist, for a paywalled article
Preventing posters being subject to the Echo website
That is a lot of good use cases.
I dont disagree with general views of Twitter. Southport murders, Right wing nutters etc. However that is in no way reflective of the use of Twitter on TAN. Largely because we impose our standards on any content.
If we look at why TAN exists. The reason is because the other social media platforms did not serve what we were looking for. Sense of community, depth or quality to conversation, some form of moderation to keep out the nutters/trolls, no adverts, respect for privacy ie you are not a product. Thats where all the other large social media platform falls down. Facebook, TikTok, Twitter does not matter which you use.
From my perspective what happens on TAN is we exploit those larger social media platforms. As the best content is effectively curated, by the community. Majority of the time there is no need to go their platform and they do not earn revenue. Thats why Musk effectively stopped sites like TAN embedding (forcing us to use iframes)
I get the rationale to starve the likes of Musk/Twitter. However would that happen ? Instead of people seeing the nonrevenue generating content on TAN, I suspect many of our users would instead be forced into having a twitter account to be able to see some of the content they want to see (from list above).
I am open to moving away from twitter, but that takes the community itself to move. Those that do an amazing job a curating the social media content that makes TAN a better place. I am highly resistant to kill it, to only leave a hole.
9 Likes
Noble values.
But are they still valid?
Not perfect, but I think score pretty highly.
Respect for Privacy. (10/10). Last week Arminius lost his password and didnt have access to his old email address. Privacy measures meant I had no way of fixing it. (Even I cant see private data). After making Arminius take a little test (to prove it was him) In the end I had to create new account, and had to merge the two users. It took hours to complete 
. Thats how seriously we take privacy. When posters have wanted to leave we have always deleted or anonymized accounts (about 6 or so since starting).
You are not a product/no adverts (10/10). The way this site is maintained is donations from the community. Probably about 70% of the costs. I make up the remaining 30%. Various sports sites, betting sites, have offered to purchase TAN, advertise on TAN. Not for a moment has this ever been a consideration. Partly because I cant be arsed to engage, but mainly because it goes against the ethos of why we started TAN. No information has ever been or ever will be sold to anyone else, because again goes against ethos.
Trolls/Nutters (7/10). We hold ourselves to a different standard than twitter or facebook so there is not even a comparison. However here is the ban list since the site started 4 years ago
For me that is a remarkably short list, and light moderation. Or perhaps it was just Klopp 
At the same time the forum generally operates within known boundaries. I think back at TIA, and the ban page was pages long. Poster may disagree (and I might not like their view), but I think that their view is often genuine. We are not perfect, but conversation is generally civilized, casual, and puting use functions like ignore. I have seen posters admit they were being a bit of a dick and apologise, I have seen other shake hands and move on. Thats pretty good.
Sense of community (8/10). A scary thought is that I have known the other mods for over a decade. Redbj, Dane and a few others nearly 20 years⌠The forum has metrics to determine the health. Such as number of people logged in over the last day divided by users logged in over the last month. The aim is greater then 20%. We average 80%. Thats a community highly engaged. With 565 people who post (not including those who have accounts and dont post), thats a good place to be. We are large enough so there is lots of new content. Not so large that you dont know others personalities, or lost amoung a sea of posts.
Depth to Conversation (6/10). This is where I would like to improve the most. On TIA we use to have a fantastic old poster, who would write ups about the clubs history (his name escapes me). When I was younger I use to to all the statistical analysis. Sweeting had more time to talk about our youngsters. I would love a bit more on that. Credit to RAWK they some bits here they do better than us.
I think an ideal state would probably the site being double or triple the size it is now. But generally, I am pretty happy how the community transitioned to TAN stabilized, and become a much happier healthier community.
12 Likes
Did not realise Paulrojo was suspended
In any case I am thankful for the forum, that itâs a free forum for me to interact with fellow fans. Only forum I have some form of active engagement in.
4 Likes