You’ll need to outsource that so other countries can have a variant named after them.
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I’m not allowed to post this in the Rugby thread as apparently speaking to yourself is not allowed on this forum. Basically you’re all a bunch of heathens 
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careful now. That’s image is at risk of sticking in my mind
Interesting that this discussion is coming back into the spotlight with the phrase “no jab, no job”.
I think a Tribunal will likely deal with such an issue as I’ve set out above.
I expect it will be lawful for an employer to dismiss (or refuse to employ) an individual who refuses to be vaccinated provided the employer can demonstrate that it cannot reasonably (continue to) employ that individual in a role where they cannot pose a risk to others (employees, customers, contractors etc).
So employers will need to show that the decision was reasonable and proportionate in all the circumstances (their business, the role, the individual concerned, and any vulnerability of others).
I understand that NHS workers are already required to have the Hep B jab.
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If you have been deemed an essential worker over the past year and are working as a result ,could you just continue to employ the same precautions you have done over that time which has till now been seen as keeping you and others safe.Or are we now saying that those precautions were not enough and your employer has been putting you at risk.
It’s about all the circumstances. Now that a vaccine is available, is it reasonable for an employer to insist on employees having it? In most cases, I expect the answer will be yes. Some employers have, themselves, decided that the risk was too great without a vaccine so furloughed some of their staff even if they didn’t have to from an economic point of view.
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I guess most will not make it compulsory but will implement consequences. Just as the Singapore government mentioned that vaccines will be free for all and not compulsory but anyone choosing not to take it MIGHT be subject to frequent tests, or travelling might be restricted or subject to quarantine when coming back to the country etc. I think enforcing vaccines might have legal implications depending on country to country if serious side effects kicked in especially now that there are no effective studies on long term effects of the vaccine so governments would not want to put themselves into a position where they ‘guarantee’ anything for any individual.
Oh, I agree. I’m not talking about compulsory vaccination even if the consequence of not vaccinating are such that the individual feels they’re left without a choice (if they’re to keep their job).
Ya in Singapore definitely alot of people feel that the government is as good as telling you, you need to take it without telling you need to.
Interesting programme on Radio 4 this morning …
They take a look at excess deaths per 100,000 across the world. The conclusion is that many countries reporting relatively low numbers of Covid deaths are ahead of the UK in terms of their excess death rate. In fact by using purely excess deaths as the measure, the UK plummets down the table to 18th.
Even some countries in Europe including Bulgaria & Spain apparently have a higher rate of excess deaths despite reporting lower Covid related death rates.
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I expect what will occur is a division. You can’t wilfully discriminate those unable to vaccinate. Say a pregnant woman or say someone immunocompromised.
I would also say if there is a likelihood that you are in contact with those who are at risk (fellow workers, members of public) it is a reasonable expectation that you are vaccinated.
Yes, it’s notable that the UK excess death figure tracks very close to the UK figure for deaths where covid is referenced on the death certificate (and not just someone dying within 28 days of testing positive). It’s been within 1,000 of the total figure on the recent occasions I’ve checked.
Other countries, like Spain, are reporting deaths from covid at between 30 and 50% less than their excess death figure which doesn’t seem to correlate. Whilst it would rank the UK considerably lower than most figures suggest (18th as opposed to 3rd or 5th, as you say), we’re still comfortably one of the worst, unfortunately.
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Yes, well for those who are unable to vaccinate for the legitimate reasons that you give then an employer would not lawfully be able to dismiss (or not employ) for those reasons. They may still have an argument as to proportionality though but they would be on very thing ground there.
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I suspect the HSWA 1974 will cover this but it does raise many difficult areas.
If an employee elects not to be vaccinated this does not remove any obligation from the employer to actively manage the risk to other employees or for that matter customers.
Quite a legal sticky wicket.
Singapore received the Moderna vaccine today, the 2nd vaccine to be approved after Pfizer. Still on track it seems for all citizens and long term residents to be fully vaccinated by year end.
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Despite the awfulness of the pandemic, for a state like Britain or Germany to lock down completely hermetically, and gain he benefits of New Zealand, the virus would have to be significantly more lethal to younger age groups I reckon. While I am no economist, the economical cost of 100 % hermetically sealed borders for states that rely on free trade and massive trade between neighbour states, would be astronomical. Particularly for EU states, given that the point of the EU was the entwine the economies of the various member countries.
However, what I am mostly interested in is what you wrote about demography no playing a role. I don’t trust your anecdote and wish for actual evidence since it is contrary to common sense, but also contrary to our situation in Scandinavia, where more rural areas are almost completely untouched by the virus. You need to source this, because your statement makes no sense, is illogical, and goes against what we are experiencing here, where limiting travel between regions where the infection is high to those where it is higher has been quite successful indeed. And the places where infection is high in my country, well, those are the densely populated regions and it is the same in Sweden and Finland.
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As for the local situation in Norway, we had the spike from the second wave some time ago, but our infection rate is now flat and have been for some time. The worry is the mutated versions of the virus more than the original one these days since the British and SA version is more difficult to contain.
As for vaccinations, it is coming slowly along (too slow of course, but it is what it is) and almost everyone in nursery homes have now been vaccinated so we shouldn’t see (hopefully) the death spikes of previous months when virus got into our quite protected nursery homes. 73 737 people (basically nursery homes) have been fully vaccinated and 313 299 first doses have been injected (awaiting second dose).
Death Count is 607 since the beginning of the epidemic.
To illustrate trends of hospitalisation, infection and respirator etc. and where we are in the second wave (it has ebbed out, but we are vigilant against a third) I am providing this print screen of VG’s data:
You’ll notice that the second wave never really took off as we feared it would here and that our measures have been very effective all in all. The graphs begins obviously last year when the virus came to Norway.
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That could be an interesting subjet.What I see in France indicates you need a very good knowledge of the regions to decipher what’s going on (is this being ignored?). I live in the Vaucluse a rural area with very specific weather conditions. I wondered why over the X-Mas period the number of cases shot up. When you think about it it might not be such an anomoly. It’s a region where familles have their familly residences (i.e many have moved out yet still have relatives and their ancestral homes in the region) X-Mas is a period when many in France go back to the familly domaine to celebrate, most of the similar regions in France also had big increases in infection rates at the same time (Center, Alsace,Lorraine … all of which have little in common apart the ancestral home phenomen. There’s so many factors and I have thought about how theories can be tested however came to the conclusion there’s just noway to get a decent biological picture. You know taking same sized areas and corressponding the data found for each area. Just the way regional health authorities are composed makes data collection and analysis nigh on impossible. This was greatly evident when the British variant was disclosed, some extraordinary claims were made that would have required even more extraordinary research techniques to clarify, seems to me X-Mas shopping wasn’t factored in.
Let’s face it there’s been to much tooing and frooing of people in the regions the most affected at a given time. Those regions that have managed to stem tooing and frooing I would guess in general have faired better than those that haven’t stemed the flow of people.