I think we need @Hope.in.your.heart to go and have a word with him.
1 Like
With whom, this Binder guy? Seems to have a serious problem…
2 Likes
Yeah, gives his location as Baden, Switzerland. He also says he’s a cardiologist and I find it very hard to believe that he hasn’t seen the tangible effects of this pandemic in his working life.
2 Likes
I had a deeper look at the thread I posted. He’s a full on conspiracy theorist that has had a go at lots of stuff including 5G. Sadly he seems to have quite a few supporters going by the thread you posted.
The fact that he says he’s medically qualified bugs me to be honest. Takes some doing for someone like that to turn against the obvious evidence
1 Like
Bet he isn’t.
Crossed my mind to be honest which is why it bugs me. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen, but then he could have a PhD in something abstract as well.
Given his use of English…
1 Like
I have an honorary doctorate believe it or not 
1 Like
Are you dangerous with it?
1 Like
Could pretend to be a doctor but that would be bending the truth to the point of it snapping. Claiming to be a doctor on twitter and claiming that proven science is a hoax should be an imprisonable offence. Freedom of speech is all well and good unless it causes harm or is defamatory. Think he’s guilty on both counts there.
2 Likes
What has struck me is that the comments ive read from the authorities explaining their thought process haven’t even really questioned whether this changes the cost-benefit analysis of this vaccination, but more focused on the responsibility to adequately inform patients of the risk of taking it.
2 Likes
It also doesnt work instantly. It will typically take 10-14 days for immunity to reach peak levels, so if you’re on a two dose regimen you’re still talking up to six weeks of precautions from the date of your first shot.
3 Likes
1 Like
Indeed, although they may be having those conversations but we’re just not seeing them reported. You’d have to think that the precautionary principle comes down heavily in favour of continuing the vaccinations unless they are looking at data that hasn’t been made public.
I’ve also seen very little reference to the fact that COVID-19 has been shown to cause clotting in quite a large number of cases (although I think we’ve both mentioned it in here). Even if the vaccines increase the prevalance of clots occurring than among a non-vaccinated population (which is questionable at this stage) surely the question ought to be is that prevalance of clotting (or CVST) nonetheless lower than that amongst people who contract COVID?
I saw an interesting statistical chart that showed that since the vaccine roll out the vaccine roll out in the UK is estimated to have saved 4,000 lives. What was particularly interesting about that though was that the French vaccine roll-out, which has been substantially smaller and slower than the UK’s, was also estimated to have saved 4,000 lives - even though the cases and death rates during this period have been quite a lot higher in France than in the UK.
This was because the UK lockdown is having a greater effect at reducing deaths than the French lockdown (goes to the point about what the government should have done this time last year). I found that interesting - I’ve probably bookmarked it so will post it if I can find it again.
Here we are:
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371880926398021639
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371881134305521664
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371884552776454158
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371884896814301184
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371886295614685188
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371890788364341249
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371897338143383552
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371899074279006209
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1371901128900743174
Hey about to run out the door, but there is this article today which you may find interesting:
Just run it through google translate:
Also: @Kopstar, they are pretty sure it is a causal link indeed. At least the expert group in our top hospital, which you can read about here if you wish. They don’t say they they are “sure” like this, without being quite sure, these are scientists and doctors and not journalists or politicians.
Anyway, got to run.
Ps. I thought there were two health workers dead, but they say only one. Anyway, not that important. Maybe I have skipped a beat reading it, since I was so sure they were talking both about this woman aged 30 and another in around 50, confused me a bit since I was so sure I read 2 dead here yesterday. Anyway…
4 Likes
Thanks for the link, which I’ve read. It’s certainly the most assertive claim for a causal link that I’ve seen so far. We await the EMA’s statement.
3 Likes
Out of curiosity I wondered why I hadn’t seen much press about Pfizer and the deaths in the UK from diarrhoea (we’ve had 4, compared with none following AstraZeneca). I thought it was an interesting discrepancy.
I found these articles…
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149
Norway investigates deaths of 23 elderly Pifzer-BioNTech vaccine recipients
Adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines – such as fever, nausea and diarrhoea – may have contributed to the deaths, say investigators
ByAnne Gulland18 January 2021 • 4:55pm
Experts have warned that there were bound to be deaths among the frail and elderly after vaccination CREDIT: AFP
Authorities in Norway are investigating the deaths of 23 frail elderly patients who had recently received the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine.
Most experts have said there is no need for alarm with the fatalities in this group most likely to be a coincidence.
According to a report in the British Medical Journal 13 deaths have so far been investigated and authorities have concluded that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, such as fever, nausea and diarrhoea, may have contributed to the deaths.
Steinar Madsen, medical director of the Norwegian Medicines Agency (NOMA), told the journal: “It may be a coincidence, but we aren’t sure… there is no certain connection between these deaths and the vaccine.”
“There is a possibility that these common adverse reactions, that are not dangerous in fitter, younger patients and are not unusual with vaccines, may aggravate underlying disease in the elderly,” Mr Madsen said. “We are not alarmed or worried about this, because these are very rare occurrences and they occurred in very frail patients with very serious disease.
“We are now asking for doctors to continue with the vaccination, but to carry out extra evaluation of very sick people whose underlying condition might be aggravated by it.”
Experts have warned that there were bound to be deaths among the frail and elderly after vaccination, with one advisor to the United States vaccine programme cautioning against immunising this group first because it could dent confidence in the jabs.
Dr Helen Keipp Talbot, associate professor of medicine at Vanderbilt University, told the medical science news site STAT, that natural medical events could be confused with side effects of vaccination. “I think you’re going to have a very striking backlash of: ‘My grandmother got the vaccine and she passed away’,” she said.
Stephen Evans, professor of pharmacoepidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, agreed the deaths were likely to be a coincidence. “When we vaccinate people at high risk of death then there will be a certain number of coincidental deaths that occur shortly after vaccination,” he added.
He said that the number of expected deaths would be monitored by authorities. “We do not yet know, but it would seem that the observed numbers of deaths is not notably above the numbers expected, but this will need to be examined continually in all countries where it can be done,” he said.
The UK regulator, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, said all adverse events after vaccination must be reported.
“Those at the highest risk of Covid-19 complications, whether due to their elderly age and/or underlying chronic illnesses, are currently prioritised for vaccination. It is not unexpected that some of these people may naturally fall ill due to their age or underlying conditions shortly after being vaccinated, without the vaccine playing any role in that.
“We have robust surveillance systems in place to rapidly review all reports of suspected side effects to determine whether these are possible new risks, or coincidental medical events.”
In trials the Pfizer vaccine performed well in terms of safety, with the most common side effects being pain at the injection site, headache and fatigue. The incidence of adverse events was low and was similar in both the vaccine and placebo groups.
In a statement, Pfizer told the BMJ: “Pfizer and BioNTech are aware of reported deaths following administration of BNT162b2. We are working with NOMA to gather all the relevant information.
“Norwegian authorities have prioritised the immunisation of residents in nursing homes, most of whom are very elderly with underlying medical conditions and some of whom are terminally ill.
“NOMA confirms the number of incidents so far is not alarming, and in line with expectations.”
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
In light of the further data from the UK vaccine roll-out, maybe these ought to be looked at again?
1 Like
Coincidence? This released earlier, just ahead of the EMA public statement
Government response
UK regulator confirms that people should continue to receive the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca
Following suspensions by some countries of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca over suspected blood clots, the MHRA confirms that the benefits of the vaccine in preventing COVID-19 far outweigh the risks. People should still go and get their COVID-19 vaccine when asked to do so.
From:
Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency
Published:
18 March 2021
Today the UK regulator, following a rigorous scientific review of all the available data, said that the available evidence does not suggest that blood clots in veins (venous thromboembolism) are caused by COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca. This follows a detailed review of report cases as well as data from hospital admissions and GP records. This has been confirmed by the Government’s independent advisory group, the Commission on Human Medicines, whose expert scientists and clinicians have also reviewed the available data.
A further, detailed review into five UK reports of a very rare and specific type of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis) occurring together with lowered platelets (thrombocytopenia) is ongoing. This has been reported in less than 1 in a million people vaccinated so far in the UK, and can also occur naturally – a causal association with the vaccine has not been established.
The MHRA’s advice remains that the benefits of the vaccines against COVID-19 continue to outweigh any risks and that the public should continue to get their vaccine when invited to do so.
Dr June Raine, MHRA Chief Executive, said:
We continually monitor safety during use of all a vaccines to protect the public, and to ensure the benefits continue to outweigh the risks.
Our thorough and careful review, alongside the critical assessment of leading, independent scientists, shows that there is no evidence that that blood clots in veins is occurring more than would be expected in the absence of vaccination, for either vaccine.
We have received a very small number of reports of an extremely rare form of blood clot in the cerebral veins (sinus vein thrombosis, or CSVT) occurring together with lowered platelets soon after vaccination. This type of blood clot can occur naturally in people who have not been vaccinated, as well as in those suffering from COVID-19.
Given the extremely rare rate of occurrence of these CSVT events among the 11 million people vaccinated, and as a link to the vaccine is unproven, the benefits of the vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, continue to outweigh the risks of potential side effects.
You should therefore continue to get your jab when it is your turn.
While we continue to investigate these cases, as a precautionary measure we would advise anyone with a headache that lasts for more than 4 days after vaccination, or bruising beyond the site of vaccination after a few days, to seek medical attention.
However, please remember that mild flu-like symptoms remain one of the most common side effects of any COVID-19 vaccine, including headache, chills and fever. These generally appear within a few hours and resolve within a day or two, but not everyone gets them.
We will continue to robustly monitor all the data we have on this extremely rare possible side effect.
Professor Sir Munir Pirmohamed, Chair of the Commission on Human Medicines, said:
The independent COVID-19 Expert Working Group of the Commission on Human Medicines, together with leading haematologists, conducted a rigorous analysis of all available evidence regarding reports of blood clots (thromboembolic events) and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca.
Our review has found that the available evidence does not suggest that blood clots are caused by COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca.
We have been closely reviewing all reports of blood clots in the vein (venous thromboembolism, or VTE) following vaccination. There is no evidence either that VTE is occurring more often in people who have received the vaccine than in people who have not, for either vaccine.
However, we will continue to closely monitor the reports where cerebral sinus venous thrombosis has occurred in conjunction with lowered platelets to understand whether there is any potential association. This type of blood clot can rarely occur naturally in unvaccinated people as well as in people with COVID-19 disease. In the UK, 5 possible cases of this have been reported to us so far, after 11 million doses of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca.
Further work with expert haematologists is under way to further understand the nature of these cases and whether there is a causal association with any of the vaccines. Given the extremely rare rate of occurrence of these events, the benefits of the AstraZeneca COVID vaccine, with the latest data suggesting an 80% reduction in hospitalisation and death from COVID disease, far outweigh any possible risks of the vaccine in the risk groups currently targeted in the UK."
Ok, so EMA have concluded that, based on the evidence available, they cannot rule out definitively a link between these incidents and the vaccine. The EMA have said that they recommend authorities raise awareness about these potential side effects and further investigations will remain ongoing. They have not withdrawn approval.
They have concluded that the AZ vaccine remains a “safe and effective vaccine” at preventing COVID-19.
https://twitter.com/Cox_A_R/status/1372579916336730124
https://twitter.com/Cox_A_R/status/1372580252510212098
https://twitter.com/Cox_A_R/status/1372580677917507589
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1372579833289576449
https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1372566715868020738
1 Like