The Corona Pandemic

The problem with vaccination is that it is not like vaccinations for polio or diphtheria that are permanent and highly effective. The truth is the best solution (where geography has given a country the capacity and the luck to avoid the initial outbreak) is keeping the virus out. Proper quarantine (not hotel or home) with very limited movement into the country is the best way to handle a pandemic. Unfortunately I think we are likely to see more frequent novel virus in future and I hope this lesson is heeded. NZ may still manage it. I think NSW has fucked Oz doing likewise.

While I agree that nobody will know the long term efficacy of the vaccine, that is beside the point now. Unless people are totally anti vaxx, the fact remains that vaccine is the only way out for all of us. And for countries like OZ and NZ, getting the vaccination rate up does not mean opening up the borders internationally. Because unlike Singapore, where our economies are pretty much dependent on human movements in and out, we do have to open up the borders step by step. But for OZ and NZ, just getting the vaccination rates up, would mean domestically, you do not even have to contemplate a state by state lockdown, pitting state against state, domestic travel and freely happen without opening freely to international incomings and at least life can go on without risks of lockdowns after lockdowns.

Of course more is always better. The problem in reality is these things are not independent and we live in a democracy where businesses and other narrow interests will pressure govts to take risks (such as opening borders) unless it is completely unpalatable. A partially effective vaccine with partial coverage of the population gives a veneer of safety that allows these vested interests to scream for open borders etc. Takes strong unwavering leadership to stand up to this - hopefully NZ has this; Australia does not

ok wait, so we should support them to stop ramping up vaccination to the purported rate of 80%?

The problem is during a pandemic every country argues they have priority.

The last few months has seen lots of debate these. With the rights and wrongs of the EU, UK , US and India. Basically boiling down to :

  • Humanitarian need
  • Money spent
  • Research and development
  • Manufacturing.

The reality is NZ (and to a lesser extend Australia) had little leverage. In short we waited to see which horse was a winner (Pfizer) and paid. As we were low down on the pecking order its only recently we started receiving large amounts of doses.

I fully agree vaccinations earlier would be better. But I am not sure things could have been played out much differently.

I guess as much too. What is NZ’s estimation in terms of vaccination rate milestones based on their current rate vaccines order and receipt?

New Zealand like many other countries has done it vaccination in stages. Front line staff got it first (Hospital workers, airport staff etc). In the last few weeks/months been open to general public

Age band Bookings open
Ages 60+ 28 July
Ages 55+ 6 August
Ages 50+ 13 August
Ages 40+ 18 August
Ages 12–15 (with eligible parents or caregivers) 20 August
Ages 30+ 25 August
Ages 12+ 1 September

We currently have 83% of over 65s vaccinated. This drops by age group. Primarily because only recently able to book. About 60% of 55-64, and 30% of 30-50 years.

This graph gives an indication of vaccines received:

This doses given.

For context the total population of NZ is 4.9M. The plan for for everyone to be vaccinated by November this year, and there are currently 1.5M people who have made a booking and are waiting to be vaccinated.

Actually thats a very good time line and I would guess very achieveable? Well hope everything goes well! I cannot wait to go back to NZ, in my opinion, the most beautiful country in the world.

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In other news, we have also agreed to send 500k Pfizer doses to Australia immediately from our current stock and OZ will return those to us in December. It makes sense as we are already 80% vaccinated so current stocks can be sent for those who need it now while getting them back in December would be useful for us for booster shots instead.

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Re Pfizer. Australia could have got as much Pfizer as it wanted to vaccinate everybody 3-5 times over ifthe PM had engaged seriously in March 2020. Australia was going to be the vaccination early leader (instead of Israel) but Scott Morrison ‘doesnt pick up the phone, mate’ and left fairly junior public (civil) servants to deal with negotiations.

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I agree Morrison completely ballsed up the vaccination program, and the conservative NSW along with the PM are about to walk into a disaster with their plans to roll back restrictions in a truly unprotected population.

But surely it’s more ISMF’s point about early adoption of a brand new vaccine. How do you weigh up the risk of using your population as Guinea pigs against that of the virus when the risk of the virus in a country as locked down as Aus was almost negligible? It was a hard thing to sell.

The UK on the other hand had to take that risk. And it worked out. But I don’t think that necessarily would have translated to ‘success’ if Australia had done the same. If there are no deaths from Covid, how do you accept some - regardless of how small - deaths from the vaccine? How does that affect the future rollout of vaccines in a vaccine-hesitant population? Would it make the hesitancy even worse than what it is now?

Came across this. Hard to disagree with the Doctor in the article. Yet there are plenty out there that do.

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Help me out guys. I had been trying to determine if my sister had had the vaccine. Given that her kids had none of their childhood immunisations on religious grounds I knew it was a long shot. Seems she isn’t getting the vaccine. She’s posted this to me:
Redirecting....

Usually i’d go in all guns blazing without thinking much like I do when I post on this forum, but I’m being cautious here because I know she’ll put up a wall, especially if I play the man and not the ball…

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Sorry your question was to how to convince her to take the vaccine or you think she might have but wants to know for sure she had?

I’ve come across people like this and I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that there’s not a lot you can do. Not the answer you want to hear I know and it’s horrible. I’m a member of a couple of kidney disease related groups and this issue comes up regularly. Everything from all vaccinated people will be dead in 18 months to begging people to look at Ivermectin is in there. I’ve tried to put a polite factual view across and got absolutely no where.

The issue is tearing families apart and this view that they are not at risk and pose no risk to others is simply lost. For the record my neighbor’s were a family where the dad was vaccinated the mum refused to o the grounds of being healthy. Her parents who live nearby were livid. He caught Covid and it floored him for 2-3 days. That then passed to her and she’s still struggling 3 weeks down the line. Guess who’s in the vaccine queue in a few weeks?

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Fairly certain she hasn’t had it but she hasn’t specifically said she hasn’t. Just that she’s linking Facebook posts about pro vaccine choice. I think my post was misleading. I am trying to argue the content of the Facebook post that choosing not to get vaccinated it’s not similar to choosing to be a heavy drinker all your life and dying of liver cirrhosis.

The other day we were discussing immunisations for 12 yos, (which I don’t agree with btw as I don’t think there is the data there yet for it), she said there was news that a immunised 12yo in Sydney died while swimming after he had a vaccination. I linked an article from the boy’s school that he had died but that he didn’t get a vaccine, she said “I’m not sure I believe that. I think I’ll need to hear it from a Facebook mum.”

!!
Excuse Me Reaction GIF by Mashable
!!

What the fuck is a Facebook mum for a start?

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There are many such people - across all realms of debate and discussion. It took me a long while but I learnt the golden rule -

Do Not Engage. Discussion is Futile. Do Not Engage.

Works a treat.

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So she rails about people she’s had to treat because of the poor choices that they’ve made and insists that gives her the right to make her own poor choice to the detriment of her health and others?

Hmmm…that nurse is a bit of a hypocritical moron.

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Yes you’re right. The problem I have is that these people are spreading false information in some pretty vulnerable groups of which I’m a member. Their information is well presented and convincing but falls apart pretty quickly if you look into it but a lot of people wont make that effort.

Less is more I think.

A fu… person who is a mom and has a viable internet connection.