He took Invermectin ( This is not just a drug for horses - it has been FDA approved for human use since 1981 - contrary to popular belief.) He also took a cocktail of Monoclonal antibodies and prednisone. He states he recovered in 3 days which may be true - as Covid affects different people in different ways. He has not stated whether he has been vacinated or not ( I suspect not).
It is interesting that he has allegedly taken a different path towards a cure for his symptoms - which given any other illness/disease you would expect individuals to try different solutions, not just invest all their hopes into a singular cure. In any disease/illness it does not have to be a “one way or the highway” solution. I guess it does not stop him from transmitting it to others - but neither does the vaccine I believe.
I have had both my AZ shots and am quite happy about that .I try to keep an open mind though.
I find this a very sad situation within your familly.
Your role is not to judge but support, I do not mean support the choice, you are there to support the consequences. Which includes pointing out the possible consequences which will probably be her throwing away 10 years of her life which as she has pointed out has included some very difficult situations that she selflessly push through. She can get sacked for this and rightly so. So unless she doesn’t need her pay check then so be it.
I don’t know the religious arguements against vaccination (or general innoculation) however what I can say is that’s one violent ‘letter’ over her choice. She imo will not forgive you if you ‘side’ against her. She probably knows your stand point on this which means she’s ready for it and you’ll get it in the face. It’s your choice how you deal with this. That she sent this letter to you indicates to me she’s testing you, don’t go there!
My son is a pharmacist, I remember at one point he needed a vaccination so as to work in public health care. The vaccination was in short supply at the time and our ARS local health authority wouldn’t sanction him getting it (even though his situation was list A and they were ignoring that saying that List A was the army). We spoke about it and he was saying it’s their fault he couldn’t get vaccinated (and the vaccin in question was pretty useless and he knew what he was talking about), which was true, however I pointed out it wasn’t them who would loose out. Just don’t throw 5 years of your life away. We did some research and pulled some strings and he got his vaccination from another ARS (region where his mother lived).
My point is when it comes to familly as I said earlier whether accident or choice watch how far you take the judgement and always support or end up with a disfunctional familly.
Unfortunately, we do really have to respect the freedom of choice here, even if we do not agree with it. And there are all sort of reasons for not taking the vaccine, some for legit medical reasons, some for whatever they choose to believe. Have a friend who is anti anything our government advocates. So when the government approves the MRNA vaccines but not the Sinovac vaccine from China, he then decided that he will never take MRNA vaccines because he believes there must be a conspiracy why the government is pushing the MRNA ones. So he waited and only recently took the Chinese vaccines when it became available.
Another friend’s whole family decided not to take the vaccine because his sister became sick after taking the vaccine due to her line of work. The doctors were not able to diagnose why she became sick but she was hospitalized for a month. She has recovered since but because of that, the whole family from the parents to the siblings decided not to take any vaccine. When I pointed out to him that there are overwhelmingly non-incidents compared to incidents due to vaccine, I could not disagree when he pointed out that its not that easy to brush concerns off when it hits close to the family.
Thus, I think for friends and family, I adopted a let me lay out the realities and facts for them: The facts are more people had not suffered any reactions compared to those who had. Yes, nobody know what are possible long term effects but like what you said, no one knows. Its like we do not stop eating because we might choke one day. The realities are that no matter what we say, the authorities will probably in the short and medium term lay out differentiated health policies for vaccinated and the unvaccinated. If you are ok with that due to your choice, then its ok, but you got to accept that as a consequence of your choice whether you like it or not.
These are things I would say and ultimately its still their choice. And as family, whether they are going to vaccinate or not, we just hope they stay safe and healthy. Take care!
To be totally honest with you we have a family chat and I shared the abrupt LA Times article @Noo_Noo shared above as I was trying to determine the position of everyone other than my bro and parents - who are either vaccinated or booked in - so it’s totally me who initiated this.
But I’ve kept the conversation as respectful as I possibly can. My sister and family lead very healthy lives but I’ve pointed out how long covid is affecting professional athletes ( after she argued that covid mostly affects, in a significant way, the obese!) And told her she should read up about it. I’ll probably leave it there. If she’s been against immunisation this long - eldest is turning 17 - then I’m not sure opinions can be changed.
I respect freedom of choice when that choice doesn’t negatively affect others.
If someone with cancer refuses treatment, they aren’t really affecting anyone else.
When someone refuses a vaccine they are extending the lifetime of this pandemic, providing an opportunity for the virus to mutate again and drag us all back to square one, and filling up hospitals with something that would have been a mild cold had they been vaccinated.
Their rank stupidity and selfishness is dooming is all.
But it assumes the starting point of the conversation is a concern about the vaccines and their safety and not “yeah my right to choose”. How do you break down that barrier while avoiding conflict?
Choose a life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers… Choose DSY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit crushing game shows, stucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away in the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself, choose your future. Choose getting a vaccine, choose protecting yourself and others, choose life… But why would I want to do a thing like that?
Yeah, absolutely it is not. this is not just an issue of personal health, but of public health - how the practices of some (often many) affect the health of an entire community. Refusing to take a vaccine that significantly limits transmission (even the scary data on Delta shows it still has a significant effect) of a pathogen that spreads the way a respiratory virus does is far more alike to dumping toxic waste in a public water supply than it is the personal choice to not take an antibiotic for a infection.
I think one of the biggest myths of this pandemic has been the idea that the proposed treatments these “open minded” talking heads advocate are being ignored by the medical community. Pretty much everything that has a mechanism of action that can theoretically help with Covid has been tested in clinical trials. The fact the medical community is promoting only a very small number of them is not because big pharma doesn’t want cheap drugs repurposed, it’s because they don’t fucking work. And in many cases have significant side effects.
One point to understand is that as a drug or biologic gets its initial approval from the FDA it can be legally used for pretty much any purpose a Dr wants to use it for. From that point on, the FDA approving it for a specific indication (e.g. treatment or prevention of COVID) only impacts whether the manufacturer can market it for that use. As such, there are many products that are part of treatment guidelines that are not technically approved for that indication. Prednisone for the treatment of Covid is one such drug. However, it is only part of the Tx guidelines for hospitalized patients who are on supplemental oxygen or a ventilator. It has not shown any benefit for less seriously ill people with the symptoms Rogan has described having.
Ivermectin is also approved for use in humans, but is not part of any Tx guidelines because it has been tested and utterly failed. It is also a drug that has a narrow therapeutic window, meaning the difference in dose between what is required to make it work (for what it is shown to work for) and the dose that will make you worse is small. Therefore, this is not a good candidate for self medication, even if there was some hope that it might be beneficial. Regardless, it’s faired really badly in trials so not responsible Dr would Rx it for covid, which is why people are turning to veterinary products and self-medicating. It causes harm and has no benefit. Pretty much an statement on the Joe Rogan show in general.
Monoclonal antibodies on the other hand have been shown to be quite effective. The problem is they are expensive, have significant risks that require them being given in a controlled environment and so are not scalable as a population wide Tx because of the way they have to be administered, or just in terms of supply. They are also not indicated for someone with the symptoms Rogan has admitted to so, as the only really effective Tx among his entire regimen, even that isnt really a fall back option for the people buying the shit he’s selling unless they get way sicker than him to qualify for it.
People like Rogan are not open minded. They are belligerently stupid with a significant under appreciation of how little they know about the things they opine on.
What I’m beginning to realise is that the early reckoning that most people would only get mild symptoms and their would be little problem is a little bit off the mark and many people have grasped onto this under the assumption they will be 100% fine.
For me the messaging has been wrong in many areas and still is.
I don’t disagree, but aren’t we back to the ‘viral load’ issue?
I know lots of people who’ve had covid present as mild symptoms, but a possible reasons why it’s kicking the living shit out of Covid sceptics is because not only are they unvaccinated, they are also congregating in numbers with other non vaccinated people, and failing to take any basic mitigation steps like social distancing or mask wearing. As a result when they get it, they are getting it big time.
Every chance yes. Try and explain that to them though when f***wits like Johnson and co. constantly push out the message that most will get mild symptoms. It’s correct but in so many cases so so wrong.
There’s also the fact that everyone reacts differently to it.
People are terrible at understanding really big or small numbers. When the exposed population is large enough, as is the case with a global pandemic, even small percentages are enormously impactful in absolute terms. So even if there really was a binary consideration of Die=bad and not die= fine, the impact would still be terrible despite near the entire country surviving. But as you say it isn’t binary. It is a continuum of negative impact and its really shitty a fairly long way down the continuum away from death.
So we are going to have booster shots as early as this month for seniors above 60 who last had their 2nd dose 6-9 months ago and for those immunocompromised - 2 months after their 2nd dose.
So, this appears to be a massive climb down by the EU - an acceptance that best reasonable efforts allows AZ to deliver the EU’s ordered doses well into next year. Entirely predictable but at least it brings to an end one of the most shameful episodes in the EU’s recent behaviour over vaccines.
