Ugh. I think that’s a pretty bad take.
12-15 year olds don’t work anymore and therefore don’t pay taxes that can be siphoned off. They are therefore expendable.
The anti-vaxxers caused mayhem, demonstrating in London today, assaulting four Police Officers also. I understand it’s their choice not to have the vaccine, selfish as they are. What I don’t get, is what they hope to achieve by demonstrating and causing chaos, when the vast majority of the people don’t agree with them.
The UK is out of step with every major country not vaccinating teenagers.
It’s a surprising decision given new variants increasingly affecting children, the strong link between schools and outbreaks, the economic impact of children isolating at home, the low risk of vaccine, and low/moderate risk of long Covid, the importance of increasing herd immunity, and the impact on messaging (the I’m low risk, why should I get vaccinated)
To me it seems nuts for JCVI to cite myocardial risk as the rationale. A study in the US analysed nearly 880,000 vaccinated people aged 16 plus, against control population of similar profile. Their finding was there was 2.7 more cases of myocarditis for every 100,000 if a vaccine was given. However in the unvaccinated group if they caught Covid the risk was 11 more cases per 100,0000.
The risk though is not myocarditis or not. It’s one risk vs another. If your child catches Covid CDC estimates 1 in 1000 children will develop MIS. Given how rife Covid is in the general population even if you say the odds are my child won’t catch it (let’s say 20%) the dangers/risk of Covid to children still massively worse than the risk of the vaccine.
I can see that this will be a decision that get reversed. The biggest challenge for policy makers is which data to use. As virus evolves earlier studies should become less relevant. Unfortunately frequently they don’t. Most studies do not even consider variants.
Yeah, I think there’s a very good chance that the CMOs ignore the advice of the JCVI here.
What exactly is he selling?
He is not anti - vax. He has not encouraged anyone to refuse the vaccines. He suggested, from memory, that people under 20 who have not had the vaccine, are not in any major danger of becoming seriously ill or dying. This is undoubtedly true. The “internet” thus labelled him anti-vax.
Rogan has the most popular podcast in the world. Mainly because he comes to subjects with an open mind and a quest for learning. Yes he has some whacky guests on his show with questionable theories - but so what? If he hears something patently stupid he calls his guests out on it. He does not agree with every viewpoint presented on his show .On occasions he has angered me with his opinions on subjects like hunting for example. I still think his show is a valuable place to open up debates on a huge range of topics. I for one like to hear contrary ideas and viewpoints - sometimes they even reinforce the consensus viewpoint because they are so outlandish.
He has made a decision to medicate outside the norm - that is his (and everyones) right to do so - for good or bad - Steve Jobs did the same with terrible consequences but it was his choice. Nobody condemns Steve Jobs for refusing cancer medication - they understand that he had sovereign rights over his body - he made his choice. Or should everybody be compelled to take the same medications without questions?
I firmly believe in the Covid vaccinations. I believe that there will be consequences for the unvaccinated and rightly so - that is their choice. I disagree with them, but I am not willing to support compulsory vaccinations in any way.
What Rogan did has worked for him - I am glad he is in good health. .
Is it this study in Isreal?
I tried to understand the methods in this study but was there regular PCR testing through the observation period or, what I assume, testing only of symptomatic persons? That would pour cold water over that 1:1,000 Myocarditis stat wouldn’t it?
If the risk really is that high after covid infection though then it’s more convincing evidence for me getting my daughter vaccinated once she becomes eligible.
It’s essentially an entire Israel population study. Which is great because the data set is so large.
The PCR testing would be skewed towards symptomatic. Simply because there will be a percentage that simply do not get a PCR test. I would say though though that Israel has pretty good testing numbers (2.5x greater than population).
When not on my phone I will find it he reference for MIS-C and delta.
However there is clearly a notable pattern with Delta and children. In Indonesia for the month of august 228 children died of Covid.
For me a variants success depends on the board it is playing on. Our current board it a vaccinated older population and unvaccinated younger population.
Whilst there is lots of talk about breakthrough infections, and vaccines being less effective against variants. To me as the playing field changes a scenario where the Covid demographic shifts to increasingly effect the young is also a considerable risk.
There speaks a Brexiteer. To me it seems as if a reasonable compromise has been made. AZ do not want a court case and the E·U are no longer short of Vaccine so the urgency has gone out of the situation. Common sense seems to have won out.
Has the UK and US started administering booster shots?
The ‘being vaccinated is a personal choice’ thing really reminds me of the debate that happened when smoking indoors was banned. Sure it’s a personal choice to smoke, but it’s not a personal choice to make other people breath your smoke and inhale your toxins.
Having a portion of the population unvaccinated is a public health issue. Sure, lots of them are going to get covid and lots of them are going to die. That’s their fault. But also they are giving the virus space and population to continue to adapt and mutate, risking extending this pandemic and taking us back to square one. They are actively endangering other people, especially children and the immuno-compromised. And they are taking up a huge proportion of our health service, continuing to extend waiting lists and risking the health and lives of front line staff.
For me the personal choice aspect is dwarfed by the overwhelming need of the majority. You can’t force people to be vaccinated, but you can make it nigh on impossible to lead a normal life without one. I’d be making vaccine passports necessary for any kind of participation in public life. Everyone in this country has sacrificed so much and been through such shit to get to this point. We can’t allow a thick, selfish minority to unravel that for everyone.
I’m kind of leaning in this direction for the exact reasons you state but for some reason I’m reluctant to go balls deep on it. I honestly can’t say why exactly. probably something along the lines of a 2 tier society which under normal circumstances pisses me off no end.
That said I am royally pissed and sympathetic with those that refused a vaccine because they did their own research, catch Covid and then get rushed to hospital where they are happy to be pumped full of every drug going. My sympathy is because they have been conned. There seems to be a lot of that going round these days.
Deleted some comments that were antagonistic.
As we say on TAN, play the ball not the man.
$34 for a pack of 2 with a 10-20 day wait list to get them. I dont get how we fucked up the testing part so badly. It;s like we decided the characteristics of this virus meant test and trace was difficult so just didnt bother (with the most powerful tool we have for reigning in a pandemic of an infectious disease).
When people ask where the £34 billion, or whatever it was, went on test and trace, this is a large part of it.
I’d love to see an analysis of the Dido factor in that budget.
There’s no way that was a super efficient, lean high performance entity. Not that it ever could be given the task etc. but you know what I mean.
Meanwhile the UK infection rate is one of the highest in the world and cases / deaths continue to rise.
I saw the Brazil figures 