Guess they wanted vdb thinking they’d get pogba out… Turns out not many teams wanted him and now they are stuck with pogba in… Vdb offers much more to the team defensively as well… Ole could have done much better just keeping a midfield of matic fred and vdb and keeping bruno as a false 9ish with cavani and ron upfront
1 Like
Yeah, that’s my only explanation.
That vdBeek was a plan in advance if/when Pogba misteriously disappears through an “injury” (especially if United are crap, like they were until Bruno signed, then Pogba was suddenly back playing) or just leaves the club (and now it sounds like they want to keep him).
BUT, even in that case, you’re again bringing a #10 (Donny), which is where Bruno plays. So you’re replacing a Pogba with another someone you can’t fit in. Pogba isn’t necessarily a #10, but their balance is shit when he plays in a double pivot. Donny plays even higher than Pogba.
I think vdBeek will probably drop to some sort of a better version of Davy Klaassen type of career.
Thing is I don’t think it would take a lot to get them a little more organised in the least. I mean yesterday just looked like a rabble based on, “We have Ronaldo, therefore we win” attitude.
Ronaldo wouldn’t start if I were manager. I’d probably be looking at 4-3-3 when you have players like Rashford and Greenwood available. But they also need to drop in when defending.
Every team nowadays has an offensive shape and a defensive one. I didn’t any of them yesterday.
2 Likes
Even if the midfield is static… Matic atleast offers stability, mctom doesnt do thar and neither is he often in the right position to get the ball when slabhead wants to pass
Their tactic of countering us once they have the ball and have runners in the channel works if everything works their way. The threats were nullified by
- Immediate press by the front 6 and Keita being an ace in that.
- Konate not allowing anything that slipped through the mid
- Ronaldo as one of the forwards.
- United having an ace midfield that can beat the press and release it immediately.
Brilliant team selection and game reading by Klopp for points 1 and 2.
I’ve seen vdb track back and help defensively or even attempt to. Pogba actively seems to either shirk defensive duties or go for those dangerous red card tackles when forced to do so
Of course, if I imagine someone going completely by merit and tactical sense with and without the ball (that is linked, it needs to have sense in most moments in the game, if not in all, then the rest is down to execution, the quality of the opponent, circumstances, always a certain amount of luck, etc.)…
Then I’d surely see something more solid than having bloody Scott McTominay and Fred covering 4 very, very offensive players.
And it’s not like you’d want two workers who are shit on the ball either. Then again, you can’t get the ball to your best players. They’re lacking both; better workers and better playmakers from deep. And that’s only talking about personnel. I don’t trust any of those to do something, let’s say, Carrick did for them, not to mention Scholes. Their most technical players are too wild, their best positions clash a lot. Even Sancho, what can he do par example on the right with Wan-Bissaka behind him?
They have bloody 11 players for 4 offensive positions. It’s too childish. They got greedy, wanted all the toys and candies available and are now left without direction or discipline.
Someone would have to drop and/or changing the system for the short term to “save what can be saved” from this season.
2 Likes
To be honest, I think Ole’s coaching ability in real life mirrors mine in Championship Manager. Choose a formation. Just buy a couple of players designated as goalkeepers, forwards, midfielders or defenders and put them into the spaces listed as goalkeepers, forwards, midfielders or defenders. Then go on holiday. 
6 Likes
I remember the times in CM when i was whacked around when trying to think out of the box… And then easily got routine wins when sticking to the template
2 Likes
They wanted a new layer apart from the counter attacking style which actually brought them some of those results to climb up the league. But you get that layer by also (f*ck also in fact, that’s the main thing!) coaching day in day out, not by just buying Ronaldos and Sanchos of this world and just throwing them on the pitch. My guess is that the foundations from the start weren’t of a high enough ceiling for their ultimate goal - to get back to winning things. I never bought the idea that Ole would be the one. Was and still aware that I could be wrong. Certain improvement? Yeah, we have to admit that he did it. But I don’t think he can improve them further. Plus, they haven’t won anything in what might be 5 years now come next May.
1 Like
From what I saw yesterday, how the hell did that lot make the Europa league final last year?
Jose won them the europa and lvg won them the league cup…
Moyes got them a charity shield…
1 Like
And as much as the united fans hate it , the team seems much better balanced with jesse lingard in rather than with pogba in… Especially as vdb doesn’t even get picked
1 Like
I’ve been reading some of the Utd fans comments on the media comments sections. They really don’t have a clue.
Here are some of the humdingers I’ve seen (paraphrasing)
Utd have players who are as good as Liverpool’s. It’s all on the manager. Get in a good coach and we’ll challenge
Ole has done a really good job up to now. He has brought back Utd’s identity and brought in good players. We might need a new face to finish off the project
This is on the Glazers. They treat the club as a cash machine, and with proper owners we could compete
Yesterday was terrible, but in reality we’re only a couple of players away from competing. Buying a DM would make a huge difference.
Ole should step aside, or maybe the club could appoint him as Director of Football. That’s probably more suited to his skills and he would be a good link between the squad and the board
We’re in a dreadful state. From our squad only Maguire, Pogba and Fernandes get in their team
Everyone should calm down. There were poor performances in the early years under Fergie.
The difference between Utd and Liverpool is that Liverpool play as a team.
These players are too good to play like this. Something is going wrong in the coaching
I think we should go for Gerrard. And before people slag me off, Busby played for Liverpool.
Ole is exactly what the manager should be - a figurehead and someone to rally behind. The really problem is the coaches. They are not good enough to provide Ole with the improvement to the players he needs
Ole has been good for United. He’s improved the league position and cleaned up the toxic atmosphere left by Mourinho
At the start of the season I backed us for the title. Now, if we’re not careful, we might find ourselves in a scrap for top four.
Last season we were a better side than Liverpool, and we’d have finished further ahead of them if we hadn’t lost Maguire for the run in
The scale of delusion is simply staggering. It’s amazing. Last time Liverpool were in this kind of mess, we limped on for a decade thinking we were only a couple of players from a title challenge. Occasionally you come across a Utd fan who actually grasps the scale of the malaise at the club. But mostly they seem to the think they are only a DM, a coach, a new manager or dropping/indulging Ronaldo away from glory.
11 Likes
There is some truth in the team one, but that’s something the whole world of punditry misses as well.
Klopp adds one or two a season because he is building a team. Ronaldo killed any chance of Man Utd learning that.
Anyone watching that yesterday and saying Maguire could make our team, sorry but who are you kidding. I laughed out loud at that foul on Jota. But watching back there was so many comical moments from him.
As for the last guy, yeah I think we would have finished a host of points higher if we hadn’t lost our entire defence for 2/3rds of the season and end up playing a U23 lad and someone we failed to sell.
2 Likes
Maguire gets in our team!
And yeah, please get Stevie G in
2 Likes
There is a lot of talk about United by the pundits about high pressing football, but for me that’s not the problem.
United were effectively a counter-attacking side. They were dangerous on the transition. Defending deep, and threatened with pace. Its why United were better away from home, its why they were better when they went a goal down (as the opposition tried to score more). It played to individuals strengths.
Now they are playing a forward without pace and does not run. Its not the Ronaldo effect of not closing down, its the effect of accommodating a player which is at odds with counter-attacking football. He is not the player for rapid transition play.
Ronaldo is perfect when you are dominating, opposition have 10 men behind the ball, and your struggling to find a way through (similar to when we played Chelsea). He is next to useless when the opposition are a better team, and hard work and speed are required.
3 Likes
What is particularly amusing is the fact that part of Utd’s decline is down to the outsized influence that the little cabal from the class of 92 has exerted on the club since Fergie’s retirement. And long may it continue.
8 Likes
They need their Houllier moment.
I loved Roy Evans but I think the club needed to move on at that point, the Bootroom dynasty had run out of steam. Houllier came in and started to modernise us and was followed by Rafa.
But there is a certain issue and it’s not helped by the fans, Glazers chucked the money at Ronaldo and it placated the fans, got the press backing them and obsessive idea how great this would be.
But unless Ronaldo was just dialling in at Juve then he wasn’t going be this game changer. The guy can still produce magic and the offside goal was a very neat finish but bar a shot that went 20 feet into the stand he did little.
Pogba has had more decent games for France than he has for Man Utd in the last 2 years, I think he turned up against Spurs once and everyone was purring, but that’s got to be over 2 years ago.
A good manager with a good director of football and a good coaching staff could have spent that money that’s been wasted and built something but I’m not sure what Ole is on about “We are too close now to giving up”, to what it looks like your going backwards.
The seven year myth of Fergie, the he is better than Klopp over 100 games misses several key factors, Man Utd we’re a bit of a nothing before Fergie came in, they’d pop up from time to time but hadn’t gone anywhere since Busby. They were kind of a bit like us when Klopp took over, occasional seasons of fun followed by mostly dross, Fergie had to rebuild and he did and he made them a winning side that sustained that through fair means and sometimes less so.
However last few years he was relying on his coaches and I feel this is the same place Man Utd are in. Moyes was a disaster but to be fair wasn’t backed, LVG was average but decent holding manager, Jose Mourinho was well Jose and not the vintage of his Chelsea days (not surprised that failed) and now they are with Ole who was a success in Molde and a failure at Cardiff.
If Giggs wasn’t facing a court room that move wouldn’t surprise me but it’s all false. Like Arsenal and like others they need a Klopp. But I feel the only thing close was Ponchettino and I don’t think he will be available for a while.
Some of these clubs would be wise to consider the likes of Alonso, if Ole had come straight from Molde then I’d think ok let’s see but I think Cardiff showed how bad he was and if I remember those teams couldn’t defend. Man Utd was a counter attacking team and felt like that on Sunday but all seemed so slow.
3 Likes
I agree with some of your post but their attempt at high pressing is a significant part of the problem, especially when they can’t do it properly. It is showing up both the quality (and suitability) of players they have and the lack of coaching skill at their club.
2 Likes