I heard that Muslim voters in Michigan want to vote for Jill Stein as a protest against the way Biden has handled all this, and I can understand that. But it effectively opens up the door for Trump, whose election would indeed be a far worse outcome for all countries around Israel… 
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I am hesitant to join in because it seems crass to debate this issue in terms of electoral impact but if that is where the conversation is then it is relevant to point out that in the US only a small fraction of the Muslim population is Arab (about 20%), and a similarly small proportion of the Arab population is Muslim (about 70% Christian). With all that we are talking about 2.5% of the population are Jewish, (total, not voting population), about 1.5% of the population are Muslim, and about 0.5% of the population are Arab (with only a small overlap between them and the Muslims).
We’re talking about tiny numbers and with a breakdown far more complex that it initially appears. That means trying to direct your response based on the supposed electoral consequences is not just immoral but largely impossible to do. And the reality is that the 18-30 voting block as a whole has a totally different mentality towards Israel than the standard American perspective, likely driven by never having a known any version of Israel other than Netanyahu’s version, and have a completely different relationship to news and news sources than the pro-israel establishment sources those in older demographics have their world view shaped by. If you are concerned about calibrating your response based on the voters, then viewing it that way makes it far less of a tricky microtargeting approach. Add in that the majority of the pro-israel vote is protestant (primarily evangelical), and that is already an overwhelming GOP vote anyway, it simplifies the electoral calculus even more.
I think the realty is that most politicians take the perspective they do on this issue because most are of an age that has seen them fed a story that views this conflict in as simple good vs bad terms as they did the cold war and are acting on what they genuinely think is the right path.
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Completely agree with that, but it is said everywhere that the election process paralyses the Biden administration in relation to the Gaza/Lebanon issue because they care about the Jewish vote. Which is why nothing meaningful will happen until after the election. Isn’t that right?
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No, I dont think that is right. Biden is a die hard Israel supporter consistent with American politicians of his age who have a very solidified and, IMO, out of date view of the country, and his Secretary of State had immediate family members die in the holocaust. This is personal for them and they are acting on their personal beliefs.
Lots of people look at how much Bibi has personally tried to fuck Biden and Obama before him to suggest that should result in a more confrontational attitude towards Israel, but put yourself in the shoes of a Democratic president who came into office after Trump. Arent you hoping that long standing relationships with countries can withstand the presence of a specific leader? If anything the Trump experience is part of what has made Biden double down in supporting Israel…“if we can do this for a country we value with a leader we dislike, then you should forgive us our Trump years.”
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I think it is just an expression of anger, and may not manifest as actually voting for Trump. Even if they don’t vote at all, it could shift the result.
And do you think that Harris will bring a change if she is elected, compared to Biden? Or will it be the same unconditional support for anything Netanyahou decides to do? It will be more or less the same administration after all.
Alternatively, Harris might see this as her opportunity to make her mark on history.
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I don’t know, but I wouldn’t hold out hope. It has been argued that the main foreign policy advisor she has taken in is a lot more modern in his thinking on the issue. But a lot of this was said about Blinken during the 2020 race. He was understood at the time to view his family’s holocaust experience to mean never again for anyone, but as soon as he was tested he reverted to type. The US is a ship of enormous size that is very difficult to turn around on an issue lots of interests are involved in. I am skeptical that anyone could meaningfully alter the US’s official stance on Israel and their conduct in a meaningful way and I would not have high hopes that Harris sees it as enough of a priority for her personally to spend that much political capital trying to do it.
It is a cancer in our country that is beyond any one person to fix.
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What I notice with Kamala Harris… In a very short time she has been nominee, she has handled everything that has been thrown at her, alongside having to compete with the worst human creature imaginable, and not one time, that I can think of anyway, not one time has she thrown Biden under the bus, when she has had to take the flack, for what were predominately, his past decision making.
Anyone, when coming through the ranks, who does not hold sway of the casting vote on matters… sometimes you just have to carry-on with a smile on your face.
If Kamala wins office, I feel a new Kamala, that we have not had the benefit to witness fully yet… Will begin to correct an awful lot of wrongs that have happened.
If she doesn’t take office - God help us all, our kids, our grandchildren the lot
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This is a decent piece on Phil Gordon who is acknowledged to be her main advisor on these matters.
https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/the-harris-doctrine/
It doesn’t speak that much about the current conflict, and what it does say is fairly unremarkable
The thrust of Gordon’s remarks is that Israel’s current war now runs contrary to its own “long-term security” and the stability of the Middle East. “The reality,” he said, “is that there is no enduring defeat of Hamas without a credible governance and security alternative in Gaza
That such milquetoast perspective is considered in US terms to be a notable rejection of the “foreign policy blob” conventional wisdom tells you how unlikely real change is. Especially when you factor in how little Harris has said or done on the campaign to give real expectation that she thinks a big change is needed or that she would spend her political capital trying to make it happen.
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But that’s what I mean and it’s the same mind-boggling idea that the left-wing voters in the UK would sit out the election just to punish Labour. As though the result would do them any good.
All these posts should be in the USA Election thread.
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I for one don’t expect anything to be changed w.r.t the middle East atleast regardless of which US party is in power.
Very good article that although , as with just about anything you read about the present state of the conflict , it leaves you with a sense of hopelessness and despair.
I would want to point out that the Christian/Nationalist vote is the much larger bloc that is staunchly pro-Israel.
I don’t want to derail the thread in a religious direction, but from numerous conversations I have had people are generally uneducated and conflate three different versions of “Israel.”
- Old Covenant Israel, read about it in the OT, the Promised Land stuff…
- New Covenant Israel, which theologically speaking has no geographical bounds, because according to Paul’s writings in Romans, it is the church, the new people of God who have been grafted in.
- Modern day nation state Israel, going back to 1948, post WWII there was a move to grant them a land of their own, and it was of course a botched job and there have been problems since (and long before to be fair).
The Jewish community is a mixed bag. This is only anecdotal, but my Jewish next door neighbor was at pains to communicate a “not in my name” sort of message to me, when she saw what Netanyahu was doing to the Palestinians.
She would be pro-Israel, inasmuch as it should be free and prosperous and the people allowed to get on with their lives… but not pro-Israel to the point that it tramples on its neighbors and wipes out the Palestinians in Gaza.
As for the Christian Nationalist bloc over here, they are staunchly pro-Israel because they see themselves as God’s people too. There is another aspect to the story that is peculiarly American, in my opinion. As I think about the history of this country, and how it was settled - expansion westward, manifest destiny, the people claiming a land of their own, etc. I think the Christian Nationalist bloc sees itself in the Old Testament Promised Land narrative. It is theologically wrong-headed, but I think that is a key reason why this large community is so strongly pro-Israel - and possibly more pro-Israel than many of the Jewish people living in America today.
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The other connection between the Christian Right and Israel is that many fundamentalist churches preach that Israel must exist in order to bring about the events of Revelation
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I wonder what did Jordan 
and Iraq 
do to protect their sovereignty? Bloody puppets.
Fixed
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How can I not go insane after watching this 
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