The Middle East Thread

I don’t know, but I wouldn’t hold out hope. It has been argued that the main foreign policy advisor she has taken in is a lot more modern in his thinking on the issue. But a lot of this was said about Blinken during the 2020 race. He was understood at the time to view his family’s holocaust experience to mean never again for anyone, but as soon as he was tested he reverted to type. The US is a ship of enormous size that is very difficult to turn around on an issue lots of interests are involved in. I am skeptical that anyone could meaningfully alter the US’s official stance on Israel and their conduct in a meaningful way and I would not have high hopes that Harris sees it as enough of a priority for her personally to spend that much political capital trying to do it.

It is a cancer in our country that is beyond any one person to fix.

4 Likes

What I notice with Kamala Harris… In a very short time she has been nominee, she has handled everything that has been thrown at her, alongside having to compete with the worst human creature imaginable, and not one time, that I can think of anyway, not one time has she thrown Biden under the bus, when she has had to take the flack, for what were predominately, his past decision making.
Anyone, when coming through the ranks, who does not hold sway of the casting vote on matters… sometimes you just have to carry-on with a smile on your face.
If Kamala wins office, I feel a new Kamala, that we have not had the benefit to witness fully yet… Will begin to correct an awful lot of wrongs that have happened.
If she doesn’t take office - God help us all, our kids, our grandchildren the lot

4 Likes

This is a decent piece on Phil Gordon who is acknowledged to be her main advisor on these matters.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/the-harris-doctrine/

It doesn’t speak that much about the current conflict, and what it does say is fairly unremarkable

The thrust of Gordon’s remarks is that Israel’s current war now runs contrary to its own “long-term security” and the stability of the Middle East. “The reality,” he said, “is that there is no enduring defeat of Hamas without a credible governance and security alternative in Gaza

That such milquetoast perspective is considered in US terms to be a notable rejection of the “foreign policy blob” conventional wisdom tells you how unlikely real change is. Especially when you factor in how little Harris has said or done on the campaign to give real expectation that she thinks a big change is needed or that she would spend her political capital trying to make it happen.

2 Likes

But that’s what I mean and it’s the same mind-boggling idea that the left-wing voters in the UK would sit out the election just to punish Labour. As though the result would do them any good.

All these posts should be in the USA Election thread.

1 Like

I for one don’t expect anything to be changed w.r.t the middle East atleast regardless of which US party is in power.

Very good article that although , as with just about anything you read about the present state of the conflict , it leaves you with a sense of hopelessness and despair.

I would want to point out that the Christian/Nationalist vote is the much larger bloc that is staunchly pro-Israel.

I don’t want to derail the thread in a religious direction, but from numerous conversations I have had people are generally uneducated and conflate three different versions of “Israel.”

  1. Old Covenant Israel, read about it in the OT, the Promised Land stuff…
  2. New Covenant Israel, which theologically speaking has no geographical bounds, because according to Paul’s writings in Romans, it is the church, the new people of God who have been grafted in.
  3. Modern day nation state Israel, going back to 1948, post WWII there was a move to grant them a land of their own, and it was of course a botched job and there have been problems since (and long before to be fair).

The Jewish community is a mixed bag. This is only anecdotal, but my Jewish next door neighbor was at pains to communicate a “not in my name” sort of message to me, when she saw what Netanyahu was doing to the Palestinians.

She would be pro-Israel, inasmuch as it should be free and prosperous and the people allowed to get on with their lives… but not pro-Israel to the point that it tramples on its neighbors and wipes out the Palestinians in Gaza.

As for the Christian Nationalist bloc over here, they are staunchly pro-Israel because they see themselves as God’s people too. There is another aspect to the story that is peculiarly American, in my opinion. As I think about the history of this country, and how it was settled - expansion westward, manifest destiny, the people claiming a land of their own, etc. I think the Christian Nationalist bloc sees itself in the Old Testament Promised Land narrative. It is theologically wrong-headed, but I think that is a key reason why this large community is so strongly pro-Israel - and possibly more pro-Israel than many of the Jewish people living in America today.

6 Likes

The other connection between the Christian Right and Israel is that many fundamentalist churches preach that Israel must exist in order to bring about the events of Revelation

1 Like

I wonder what did Jordan :jordan: and Iraq :iraq: do to protect their sovereignty? Bloody puppets.

Fixed

3 Likes

How can I not go insane after watching this :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

1 Like

So much of our positioning on Israel is due to it being the only democracy in the middle east…

https://x.com/NaksBilal/status/1851935886549610671

3 Likes

Gideon Levy and other Ha’aretz journalists are some of the bravest humans on the planet

2 Likes
1 Like

Not surprised in the least. This is a fascist regime, and that’s what fascists do: suppressing all critical voices.

2 Likes

Some horrifying facts in that article.

2 Likes

He and two other persons have been really brave. One is a former negotiator with the Palestinians and the other is a former IDF general. Sorry, can’t recall their names.

1 Like
2 Likes