The Middle East Thread

160k? Are you sure? I don’t think that there is a big enough stadium to take in that much people. :wink:

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We watched the first few minutes but gave up and watched the England game instead because of Curtis.

I have a friend in Paris who would normally go if he can get tickets, but he gave it a miss as he was worried that there would be trouble. Being French and Jewish, I think he was worried that he could get trapped between factions of thugs. I suspect many others feared the same.

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It was broadcast live (as most France games are) on the main tv channel. Lowest ever recorded attendance at the Stade de France with one policeman drafted in for every five supporters there. Presidents Macron , Hollande and Sarkozy were all in attendance to lend the proceedings legitimacy and to make the point that France remained steadfast in the face of anti-semitism , and only to be repaid (as you mention) by the sight of Israelis once again disgracing themselves on the international stage. I had zero interest in watching the game but strongly suspect that the draw might even have been agreed beforehand to as yet another appeasement.

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There’s no left and centrism in Israel anymore. Not when it pertains to Palestinians at any rate.

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Most Israelis would count themselves as leftists to be voting for free health , education etc.

Not when it comes to Palestine though.

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There never has been apart from a very small (and brave) minority

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Really? I thought their votes amounted to a significant minority in the past elections.

In any case, I think the imprisonment of any dissenters to the genocide may have acted as a deterrence, not to mention the national trauma of October 7.

In the 1992 the Left accounted for virtually half of the seats in the Knesset (56 out of 120). In 2022 that number was down to 4. Previously , the Right first came into ascendancy in 1977 as a consequence of the fallout from the Six Day War.

This piece really gets into it ;

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374604411_The_Demise_of_the_Left_Parties_in_Israel_From_Party_Identification_to_a_Negative_Partisanship

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Genuinely the best of TAN, when you learn something new and eye-opening, that’s actually based on something more than just something someone said on Xhitter.

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They might be voting for socialist principles like free education, free Medicare etc etc. But that doesn’t make them left wing.

All of them are against the right of Palestinians to exist. More so after the Hamas attacks. Previous Hamas targets were pretty much inconsequential missile attacks and the Israelis felt confident that the Palestine issue was non consequential.

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That’s quite the generalisation. Do you have any evidence for this claim?

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These are anecdotes, which may well illustrate a trend, but there is no data to back up the claim that “all of them are against the right of Palestinians to exist”. It’s also an opinion piece.

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I was referring to the ‘pertaining to the Palestinians’ part of his quote.

Growing signs that Israel will annex the West Bank next Spring or even earlier. Israel’s Finance Minister is discussing it openly now.

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I’m going to want some evidence on that…

We have heard so much about ‘the day after’ (once Israel finally comes round to the realisation that they can’t justifiably go on killing civilians forever) , but with recent developments in the US and the sounds coming from the extremists in the government , I’m really having a hard time imagining just what exactly this will look like.

The Gaza strip will no longer be habitable once this over and that will leave 2 million people without the means to support life. What happens to them ?

The West Bank will be completely annexed , sooner rather than later. What then will become of those Palestinians who don’t have Israeli citizenship ? Once an annexation is completed the people living on those lands are supposed to become citizens of the greater State. Does anyone seriously expect Israel to grant citizenship to people it now considers an enemy ? Will the term apartheid now become undeniable or will the non-citizens be shuffled off to Gaza to live in what might become a new tented refugee camp for millions of people , or will the whole lot of 'em be forcibly packed off to the Sinai regardless of Egyptian opposition ?

I’m just thinking aloud here and wondering what the end game really is for Israel. Does anyone really have a clue ?

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The irony of Kushner coming in and using his gulf state financial backing to rebuild Gaza as the Jewish Riviera

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I’ve been there

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I appreciate what you’re saying, but that’s anecdata. A quick Google search suggests that this data no one seems to track, however.