It’s not about their position on Palestine. It’s about the unreliability of the west in standing up for international law and their willingness it violate when it suits them.
The likes of Saudis have flouted international law with impunity as well when it suited them though. They aren’t the global south.
The shifting of their mindset w.r.t Israel has been something which has taken a while though. Yeah , their preachers might still call out for jews to be executed but the Arab countries have become more pragmatic in their approach now. And that pragmatic behaviour includes ignoring Palestinians.
I agree with this. And the fact that the global south needed to look at fuel security and food security as well. That’s always been their first priority.
no prime minister can survive such event. not even the magician bibi.
i think he still doesn’t understand his time is up.
This is the biggest disaster in Israel history and it happened on his watch…
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There are precursor breaches of international law by Islamists, who basically jettisoned the requirement for a combatant to identify themselves by military ensign, and dressed as civilians, to only then harbour within the civilian community. Then blame the enemy for killing civilians. This is partly why whenever any nation seeks to deal with Islamic extremism they face this conflation of the moral precepts of war. You are attacking civilians, no we are not, we are attacking terrorists that hide in civilian populations.
Whereas Islamism directly targets civilians with impunity.
Why not? Bush was re-elected after 9/11.
There are so many lies or misconceptions spoken as hard truth in this thread it’s pretty crazy.
Most of us have no real connection to this conflict but emotions are still this high. If a group of people who, at least, have a football club in common have these kind of conversations you can see why the actual people involved in these conflicts (or forced to be involved by their house being blown up) struggle to even begin a dialogue.
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International law does not allow for the justification of war crimes in response to war crimes. This argument is exactly the double standard raised.
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Ok, remove all empathy for innocent children being starved and bombed (which some on this thread already have done) and just think logically. Hamas are not going to be eradicated. That’s impossible. All it will do is create more anger and radicalisation, more orphans and bereaved who will seek vengeance. There is no solution to be found in war.
An eye for an eye until the whole world’s blind.
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I’m a bit confused - are you saying that Islamic terrorists invented guerilla warfare?
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For once I actually agree with you.
You can do it with time, but not by force.
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Thanks for the answer. I agree that Hamas needs to be erased. But see my post above on what I think about using force against them: the more you use force against the Palestinians, the more Hamas (or, if their current leaders are taken out, any other upfollowing extremist organisation) will grow.
Also, I believe that Netanyahou grew and fed the Hamas monster because of selfish goals of clinging to power, not for the good of the country. Would you agree with that?
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While it’s undeniable that the Abraham Accords marked a turning point in the history of Arab-Palestinian relations , i.e. the Gulf States and SA deciding that the status quo (the supposed management of the conflict by Israel) had rendered the whole Palestinian question irrelevant , and then decided there was no further need for diplomacy , they might just be thinking again after what’s happened. It’s also important to note that it was only decisions taken by the leadership of these non-democratic countries and that public opinion within is still pro-Palestinian and they still want to see a just resolution of the conflict. While public opinion generally counts for very little amongst these regimes it should still give them pause for thought.
If there is a ground attack, and I fully believe there will be, I don’t think it is to grab land, I think its too demolish hamas strongholds and armament supplies/weapons. It will take at least a decade for the infrastructure to be replaced (weapons, tunnels, bunkers, personnel, ammunition, strategic location, funding). Hamas wont be “eradicated”, it will change its name after being decimated both physically and having alienated relevant, sympathetic support.
not sure what to make of this
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1712473612442276256?s=20
Thank you for sincerely engaging in the forum on this sensitive issue.
I just wanted to re-ask.
How many Palestinian casualties will you be satisfied with, for 1400 Israelis? I didn’t hear a number, but I think you said wiping out Hamas was the objective.
If the objective is wiping out Hamas, my opinion is that is impossible. Even if the objective is seemingly achieved, the root cause of injustice will not have been addressed for the Palestinians, so Hamas will just spring up in another guise.
When IDF goes in, there will be many more Israeli casualties than 1400. It will be a slow and bloody fight. The Palestinian casualties will be anywhere from 10x to 100x. I suspect the much higher number, once the knock on effects are factored in, and not just direct kills on the battlefield.
And that’s if Hezbollah stays out of it. If they get involved, the casualty list will grow again. And if the atrocities compound, it is possible that Iran will be a lot more overt in engaging in the fight.
At that point, how many casualties will be enough?
Iran has a large military, and is very capable of causing a sickening amount of casualties. But Israel, thanks to ignoring the nuclear non-proliferation global requirement, has nuclear weapons. (Not confirmed, but no serious commentator would disagree with that).
Is that where this is heading?
Will that be enough casualties at that point, for Israel?
Edit:
The Russian angle above is perplexing. Maybe starting another axis of war, trying to trigger WWIII? With China and Taiwan to kick off in due course?
It’s a shitshow.
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It might take longer , but that’s the thing isn’t it … it will happen again and it will keep on happening until the conflict is resolved. No matter where anybody’s sympathies lie , there is one thing that is glaringly obvious … i.e. the imprisonment of two million people on a tiny strip of land , and the apartheid regime that is practised in the wider occupied territories simply cannot continue in perpetuity.
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If that happens will Palestinians be allowed to have an army to defend them, like every other country? Maybe be allowed to fish their own seas. Or have a state. Or freedom to leave without seeking permission from another countries government?
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