The Middle East Thread

The situation makes me sick. As we speak about the rights and wrongs, 2,3 millions of people are enduring lack of decent shelter, thirst, famine, all this wile being bombed. Children, mothers, fathers and grandparents are sent to a certain death without much afterthought, along with Hamas fighters.

The worst of all is that people have to drink anything in order to stay alive for the time being. So, they have to drink polluted water. As a result, mortal epidemics will start taking their due. And no end is in sight, on the contrary: 20 lorries await the green light on the Egyptian border, which is already something, but that is not nearly enough in comparison to what is needed.

All of this is horrible and depressing
 :see_no_evil:

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I heard an interview yesterday in which a man said he and his family wrote their names on their backs so that if they were found dead they could at least be buried together.

Re: aid coming in, here is the latest:

Israel has agreed to specific amount of aid in, and I think I might not be phrasing this next sentence correctly. Limited aid comes in via Egypt in order to make sure spplies don’t got to Hamas evacuation zone. IDF have said that any supplied going to Hamas will be destroyed.

Egypt has accepted.

USA brokered agreement.

Hamas leadership have remained silent on this.

Aid is going to Gaza area with least amount of Hamas influence.

Aid should be moving in on Friday.

My interpretation on what will happen:

Supplies will be taken by Hamas and transported to evacuation zone (for own purposes). These supplies will be destroyed by idf if they are seen.

Anyone that needs these supplies will need to vacate the evacuation zone. Anyone going back into evacuation zone will be seen as enemy combatant.

A ground assault will happen shortly after, and will be limited to evacuation zone. And then unfortunately the deaths will escalate quickly.

The distribution centers in south Gaza hopefully will be safe. Won’t stop Hamas from bombing that and also won’t stop a rogue Israeli rocket

Israelis will ultimately pay for the war crimes of their state. It may not be immediate but it will end up costing them - just like Germans in the 1940s paid for the actions of country men in the 1930s and 40s. Supporting Israel will just make things worse, any leaders who talk of this as ‘the right to defend themselves’ are duplicitous as Israel is actually trying to enact genocide and their support is exacerbating the death and destruction.

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Ok I get Hamas wanted to even it up by killing lots of jews but really 
is this going to help their cause?

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@Redbj another take on the challenges Egypt has opening its doors to refugees from Gaza

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Nope. This doesn’t help anyone’s cause.

Hamas has committed an atrocity. There is no other take on that.

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think US would use the Menendez issue to get further leverage on Sisi to make him allow refugees.

Read about it somewhere , trying to find the link.

I recall that as a child in the 1950’s, we had a school discussion as to where WW3 would start. I vividly remember that the majority vote was for the Middle East, but that it would have been in the last century. Second highest option was China.

Just one reason this really worries me.

As an aside - what the hell was Sunak thinking when he told Netanyahu that the UK will support Israel and wants it to “win”. There are no winners, and nor should there be.

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Yeah, the additional charges that have been filed against him accuse him essentially of being a spy for Egypt. I can imagine how this being revealed gives some additional leverage for the US over them, but not enough to just open the border.

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Lots of reporting in the last 24 hours on issues within the US State Department over concerns among staff on the balance of support being given to Israel vs Palestine. There was a high profile public resignation yesterday (see link below) and Blinken is apparently now having to fend off mass discontent.

Outside of the state department, the political director for Ro Khanna, a high profile democratic member of the house from CA, resigned after only 2 weeks in the job over the lack of support for Palestine.

It’s really difficult to get my head around how different this is to normal in US politics and statecraft.

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Obviously not, it’s resulting in further displacement and genocide of their people.

No winners, everyone loses. An eye for an eye until the whole world’s blind

Hamas doesn’t have a ‘cause’ as such. Their raison d’ĂȘtre is the destruction of Israel , and seen in that context what they’ve done makes perfect sense (to them). Equally , the almost unimaginable barabarity they showed , would have been very much a part of the plan. They wanted the shock and outrage to be on such a scale as to provoke the kind of all out war that now seems inevitable. It just provides them with another (better) opportunity to kill more Israelis.

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Maybe someone better versed on the region can enlighten me but what was the end goal of this attack? Gaza being turned into dust was always the only outcome to this. Is that all they wanted, more atrocities in response to atrocities to fuel future recruits?

Aye, there is an argument that sympathy for the Palestinian cause is not aligned with Hamas’ goals. They have no interest in any sort of compromise solution. Instead they want an all out elimination of Israel and realize that can only be achieved through conflict (not that it really can in practice be achieved that way either). They realize that any collaborative solution, the sort that starts getting advanced as sympathy for the Palestinians grow, will only be achieved with concessions and they want nothing to do with that sort of solution.

If you buy all that, I think it’s a solid argument, Hamas have a perverse incentive to poison sympathy towards the Palestinian people so that people are forced to put all their hopes on a Pro-Palestinian solutions onto them

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Needs the double face palm landing on black 17.

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All of this rings true. I guess you can also add that they have seen the Palestinian Authority attempt more collaborative solutions in vain, as settlement building in the West Bank just continues unabated.

Gives credence to their argument that the only solution is violence/jihad. Of course this is wrong, as is the Israeli view that they can somehow eradicate Hamas or any Palestinian armed resistance.

There won’t be peace until the occupation/blockade ends and Palestinians/Arabs can share the land with Jewish people, with equal rights. Sadly this seems further away than ever

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