Guys
Do we really need to play Top Trumps on who received the most sympathies for whatever attrocities. We have this going on as background noise no matter what war or disaster takes place. It really isn’t the issue?
I don’t really care about sides or “teams” at this stage. My view is that grand scale ethnic cleansing is happening whilst the world wrings its hands and makes sympathetic noises.
Its time to MAKE Israel stop.
Enough is enough, Hamas in their vile act have created the perfect storm for what Israel sees as legitimising their policy on Palestine for years.
PS
Whatever our individual views on who is right or wrong in this one sided conflict, surely our collective view is that peace should be the only ambition.
I agree and disagree. There is good universal agreement that the events you state are indeed tragedies - amongst a fairly small fraction. A “small fraction” in that I believe that in all actuality, most people in the world, including India, China, Africa and South America, have never heard of the Syria, Iraq-I/2, Afghanistan-1/2, 9/11, even WW1/2 - let alone the Israel situation. These vast populations are consumed by life closer to their personal spheres and these distant events are relatively blurry flashes that disrupt normal screen time.
Would it be a stretch to say, the above also describes the situation in Europe and the US…
Yes, Israel should stop the carpet bombing, they should let humanitarian aid in, water etc.
It’s barbaric and I consider it war crimes, don’t know if they are legally as I’m not a lawyer, but they are by my own standards.
If people here are so keen on correct comparisons and death tolls then maybe a post that literally compared the situation now to the Holocaust, literally saying ‘the Jews’ are repeating the same that has happened to them, shouldn’t get bucket loads of votes. First time I flagged a post here, but the moderators did nothing, which can only mean they find that acceptable, as apparently do many posters on here. I’m sure there will be some nice answers on me being German, go ahead.
Of all the countries I naively thought Israel would be the last to engage in genocide. I honestly question if anyone in power, on any side wants peace in the region. There’s not even a visible end game anymore.
I said earlier all this will achieve is a pile of rubble and dead people. It solves nothing.
How about you actually argue against the point instead of flipping out against it like that?
What makes the Holocaust so special/unique compared to other genocides? The only thing that’s missing right now is the systematic murder of Palestinians.
Discrimination? Check.
Ghetto-isation? Check.
Propaganda promoting racism and prejudicial attitudes against the victim group? Check.
"The Palestinian Red Crescent Society on Sunday said Israel threatened to bomb the Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza and demanded an “immediate evacuation.”
We received “serious threats from the occupation authorities to immediately evacuate Al-Quds Hospital in the Gaza Strip, as it is going to be bombarded,” the humanitarian organization said on X.
“Since this morning, there has been raids 50 meters away from the hospital.”
A hospital spokesperson has just been interviewed by the BBC and says there are 500 patients in the hospital and it is impossible to evacuate them.
You received a lot of support, albeit on a forum where we don’t know each other personally recently. A large amount of posters empathised and felt for you during a dreadful time in your life.
Irrespective of political or whatever views in this thread, for you to say “Fuck this forum” is petty, disrespectful and rude to people who offered you a fair bit more.
Well, where to start on this. It’s going to be my last on TAN so might as well make it a doozy. Actually, make that my second last. I’ll say a goodbye on the Users thread for anyone who’s interested. I find point format the best way to express myself, not necessarily going to win any awards but makes it clear and concise which is pretty much all I am aiming for:
I made my feelings known about Israel a long time ago and it was not in defense of them either. I am not going to say all that again because it’s tiring to repeat the same thing but once again, as I also mentioned before, any sort of contrary opinion to what is going on must necessarily be the polar opposite. No middle ground, no ifs or buts. It’s basically with us or against us and it ridiculous. This is basically leading to contortions by some posters for example to indirectly justify the causes of the conflict, to absolve Iran of major involvement and basically polarise everything.
There is a wider issue at play here being orchestrated by players that really are not on ‘our’ side, that being Russia, Iran, to some extent China and to a lesser extent North Korea. The West has alot to answer for but that collective guilt has been weaponised against them to paralyse them from within. Social media, misinformation and the influence thereof has risen exponentially since even a decade ago. Wildfire protests via platforms like WhatsApp can spread incredibly quickly and often these are abetted by playing on peoples fears and spreading fake information to spread that. Bad news travels fast.
Does anyone really think these super large protests are just springing up spontaneously worldwide? That’s why I brought up the protests about Assad and Russia in Syria. There have been protests, yes but nobody really to drive the outrage meter higher and higher. In the recent, immigration to Europe, the US and Western Countries from the Middle East/North Africa has increased drastically and integration not always successful leaving large populations in Western countries uniquely positioned to be used. But that’s the way I see it. Western society has an issue and there is a glaring one of a 5th column right within. We have a large Muslim population here and a large immigrant Muslim one too and a Jewish population but why are we not seeing protests on such scale? I have friends in the Muslim community and we discuss the situation, they stand with Palestine on the matter but they’re not being inflamed to take over the streets of Jhb or Cape Town or Durban. Why not, I guess we’re not really that important a country so why waste the effort. Does anyone really disagree? You can reply below but like I said, last post and I really don’t give a shit otherwise. It’s your cities awash and aflame with fervor, not really mine.
Figures quoted about as gospel truth. So 1400 dead or so on Israel’s side and 7000 Palestinians. Also there is indiscriminate and wanton air raids. So how come the figure of 7000? I’d have thought indiscriminate bombing of everything and everything over a three week period in a densely populated zone sealed off from leaving would leave far more than 7000 dead. Yet here we are, posting updates from the Palestinian Health Ministry courtesy of Hamas but lets not mention that unfortunate truth shall we lest we offend sensibilities on here. So yes, all a bit… convoluted. Someone will probably come up with a term of targeted indiscriminate air strikes for a lay person like me.
Back to Russia/Iran for a bit. The events of the 7th were orchestrated by Iran, numerous Hamas sources was quoted as saying so. Hezbollah has engaged Israeli forces, the USS Carney intercepted drones and missiles fired ostensibly towards Israel over the Red Sea from Yemen by the Houthis, more intercepted by the Israeli F -15’s yesterday I believe. Iranian hands are all over this, they may not physically be firing the weapons but they are elbow deep in blood. Russian involvement cannot be far away as they just hosted a Hamas delegation in Moscow. I hesitate to speak in absolutes but I can’t see far beyond what I would term a ‘New Axis’. I don’t really subscribe to the term of my enemy’s enemy being my friend but I am pretty set on not really mistaking my enemy’s friend for being my friend as well. I have no idea what the endgame of this is as I am not a nefarious motherfucker but I am pretty sure its nothing to do with supplying the West with an eternity of flowers, hugs and kisses. October 7th was planned meticulously for a long time and Iran and Russia knew all about it, possibly China as well. They have done this for a reason, there is sponsored conflict going on all over the world involving those two directly and indirectly and all the while our authoritarian ‘friends’ around the world, ideological and religious, watch as the West gnaws and claws at itself in a paroxysm of obfuscation, fear and guilt.
I hope this all ends soon, my eldest is now 10 and I don’t fancy him being drafted and sent off to war when he turns 18 and neither do any one of you but it’s very possible that we’re just living the 30’s again with the same appeasements and concessions being made. I’d rather Iran be given a slap now, Hamas exterminated now with Israel helping build the Palestinian people, Assad rotting in prison, Russia back in Russia with its tail between its legs and China on a friendly business footing with everyone. This is possible but with such division amongst the peoples who can make this possible we’re just holding place while authoritarian regimes suck the life out of us.
'In the past, the US state department’s annual human rights report indirectly relied on the same ministry’s casualty figures in quoting UN statistics drawn from Palestinian data.
Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, said he saw no evidence that the numbers were being manipulated.
“We have been monitoring human rights abuses in the Gaza Strip for three decades, including several rounds of hostilities. We’ve generally found the data that comes out of the ministry of health to be reliable,” he said.
Edit: 'The total death toll in Gaza rose to 8,005 people and 20,242 others injured, according to the official spokesperson for the health ministry in Gaza on Sunday, Reuters reports.
Those who have died include 3,324 children and 2,062 women, the spokesperson said.’
There are points of views that everyone is entitled to have with. And there can be exchanges of viewpoints, and there’s nothing stopping people from having contrary opinions.
The Israel - Palestinian conflict is more complicated with various degrees of grey from both sides of the equation.
As far as I go , I agree with some of both sides’s viewpoints but if there’s always agree to disagree and moving on to some specific points.
People leaving the forum in responses to debates etc doesn’t make for a happy forum.
I don’t agree with what @PaulRoJo said in that case, as the attack on Gaza is perpetrated by the Israeli Government, and not Jews.
But I also find it deplorable seeing Israel using extremely volatile language - calling Hamas Nazis, referencing the Holocaust, anybody disagreeing with Israel being labelled an antisemite- effectively using Judaism as a shield for them to carry out their atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.
Without question Israel wants to be seen as the representative of all Jews, as it helps garner support around the world for their actions.
I’m considering switching off tracking for this thread. There are some useful links being posted but having posters, that are theoretically bonded by a love of football, at each others throats isn’t helpful.