It’s a really interesting conversation to have. I think Jurgen is genuinely the best manager in the world, so it’s sort of inevitable we’re going to be worse off when he goes (which ironically is a sort of argument for FSG holding the cash until a lesser manager needs it).
But I also think ironically, people who laud Jurgen and think we’re fucked when he goes, do the man a great disservice in implying all he really brings is setting up a team, coaching and tactics. Football manager stuff.
In my opinion, the reason why Klopp is the best at what he does, is because he is a leader in every sense of the world. He gets everyone on the same page, working to the same plan and following the same vision. He makes every part of the club work to the benefit of every other part of the club. The reason why we’re fucking brilliant is because there are good people working at all levels at LFC and Klopp’s genius has been to utilise them all.
But the thing is, is that this isn’t going to work everywhere. He is famously picky about where he works, and he famously turned down Utd for example because he is smart enough to know that to do his thing he needs the structure and people around him to make it work. I think he would have struggled at Utd. It’s not the job for him.
So the structure that enabled Klopp to be a success existed before Klopp and will continue after he has gone. The scouting, the analytics, the academy, the coaching etc. Will all be here when he isn’t. He was the man the club needed at the time to get all these departments aligned and working closely, but now that is the case there is no reason why it has to fall apart in his absence. A lot of what Klopp has done has been about creating the structures, culture and relationships for our success. That can continue after he has gone.
If you want a parallel think Bill Shankly. He put in place the culture that sustained Liverpool through a further 25 years and three managers.
So when it comes to Klopp’s successor they are looking for someone who will come in without the desire to rip it up and do it his own way. They need some with a vision and ethos, but be willing to allow to people that have worked around Klopp to deliver that vision for him. For this reason I’m worried about Gerrard being anointed as Klopp’s successor. I might be judging him very unfairly, but that’s not the character I ever saw in Gerrard when he was our best player for a decade. I still think Pep is being groomed to take over as a continuity candidate.
It wouldn’t have hurt their pocket but we know they want the club to self sustaining and I’m struggling to think of a single club where the owner has forked out for ground redevelopments or a new training ground out their own pocket with no expectation of being paid back. You look at Leicester and their new £100m training base, paid for with bank loans. Spurs new ground, bank loans. In fact, I can’t think of many other clubs who have made the same degree of infrastructure improvements in the last 12 years that we have?
Bit snooty to then be unhappy that they did it but didn’t pay for it out their own pocket. Especially given they’ve managed to achieve this in a relatively short period of time when previous owners were unable or unwilling to make any progress.
If one of the black marks against them is not doing something that no one else is doing then I can live with that.
Well said. There is a counter argument here though. On my phone so brief. We have a structure that is currently extremely well suited to Klopp’s ideals. That obviously works fabulously for and with him. As and when he leaves, do we not then by definition have to replace him with somebody similar? That person does not currently (and I doubt never will) exist.
I remember fans questioning and calling for Klopp to go last season. Still staggers me now. The guy’s an absolute football management god. But the synergistic environment you draw out takes 2 to tango.
It’s possible to rip it up for a new manager every few years, particularly if you’re owned by a certain rich Russian. Takes $$$$ though, lots of them.
This investment was nearly completely due to their ownership of LFC and the increased valuation of the club, largely helped by the stadium and training ground costs (about £200-300m over the last 5 years or so?).
a) a lot of, if not all, that owner investment will be in the form of loans or share. It’s not free money. It never is. It’s literally written on the graph you posted.
b) a lot of those clubs owners are investing heavily because they are correcting previous mistakes or feel under pressure to try and short cut their way to the top (which rarely works)
For example, I’m not sure we should be looking enviously at how much Moshiri has invested in Everton. Half of it must be compensation to sacked managers.
A) No it wouldn’t. As I’ve tried to explain to you before and @BillyBiskix mentions above, because its infrastructure costs it can be a “loss” on the accounts and still not impact FFP. Thats IF they fully cover the costs. What I’ve actually wanted them to do is less extreme even than that. Either let us pay those costs off slower at maybe cost of £5-10m in interest allowing us more room to maneuver on fees and wages each year. Or settle the external loans themselves and we pay FSG instead with zero interest saving evrryone money and making it more adaptable to pay off when its more convenient to do so. FSG have the finances to make any of these approaches happen which would dramatically improve what we can do. Talking more like the back to back years when we brought in VvD, Alisson, Fabinho, Salah etc. which was a real catalyst moment.
B) Immaterial to us. How other clubs spend their money with lesser managers and recruitment teams doesn’t reflect how we can and have. One small point though, I don’t know a single team thats raised itself up from mid table to competing at the top regularly, here or elsewhere, without being one of the best funded sides in its league. One off championship maybe, but not a mainstay up near the top. That includes us historically and us under Klopp the two seasons immediately prior to us achieving that level.
All with the aim of spending money that Klopp doesn’t necessarily want or need.
I think if Klopp wants a bit more cash to spend (not that this is how it works) he goes to FSG and says I need a bit more money to spend, and FSG says ‘fine’ because he’s Jurgen Fucking Klopp, the best football manager in the world, and they would find him it. You don’t need to overcomplicate it like this.
When Klopp wants to spend money - when there is a need, or the right deal becomes available at the right time - FSG will get it done.
And mentioning the Van Dijk, Alisson, Fabinho, Salah period, is weird. You do understand that this is Klopp building the spine of his team don’t you? And having done that so effectively, we don’t need to do it again every year. The big reason why teams spend more than us is because they are having to rebuild every couple of years because it’s all gone wrong.
So yet again, here we are criticising FSG for running the club really well and demanding our world class manager spend money he doesn’t necessarily want to.
How is it immaterial? You are literally using it as a comparison. Many of the clubs on that list are a fucking joke. The reason why those clubs are spending more than us is because they are continually fucking up their recruitment and their management is a shambles. They are paying through the nose to correct the mistakes made previously, which themselves were made trying to correct previous mistakes.
You keep saying this like fact. Its simply your opinion and soon you’ll start resorting to mocking based on these “facts”! The only time we have actually ever known for sure whether Klopp was or wasn’t happy with backing was last January when it was such a bad situation that the guy who never once complained at Mainz or Dortmund said the decisions were against what he had recommended. If you are waiting for that level of evidence or more from a guy like Klopp before agreeing he would like more funds you’re never going to get it.
Every signing Klopp has made in the last few years was to address a need fans had spotted at least 12 months earlier. Its nonsense to believe he wasn’t aware of a need that he later addressed which fans could see.
By this stage you are trolling, you throw that out every time I post its pathetic and insulting. No i do not consider myself a financial expert, i only got so far in Uni studies before my funding was cut. But 1 That doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion 2 It doesn’t mean that opinion is instantly wrong. Play the ball not the argument. If you want to actually engage and debate fine but stop trying to discount my opinions and mock me its getting fucking ridiculous now.
You are being told you are wrong by basically most of the forum… Yet you continue on your crusade… Shifting the goal posts… Posting untruths… Warping quotes to suit an incorrect agenda…
So yes people will call you out on it… And when they’ve done that ad nauseam shift to taking the piss.
Wouldn’t want to be owned by any of these no matter how much money they pour in for whatever illegitimate reasons.
As for Everton . Shows that there’s far more to being a successful club on and off the pitch than how much the owners own money he chooses to spend.
I stand by it, criticising them for not spending their own money is harsh. Those owners are unlikely to walk away from that debt if they sell the club so the next owners are then paying a higher whack to take that on and will invariably want it back in some form somewhere.
Actually its just a very vocal small minority of the forum that have even less financial knowledge than me but for some reason you’re not allowed to disagree with. Those who shout the loudest and all that. Not getting a balanced view in this forum at all recently anyone who doesn’t agree with the status queue (and not the band) gets railroaded out of town. The only time anyone who had any real financial knowledge argued with me on these matters was on amortisation, he disagreed with me on how important it was but did eventually acknowledge it was a measure that seems to matter to our owners, possibly only due to FFP but we don’t know that.
. Shows that there’s far more to being a successful club on and off the pitch than how much the owners own money he chooses to spend.