The Owners - FSG

Good post. I will try an answer. I don’t wish for FSG to leave as such. They are the ones who have said they are selling up, in whole or in part, however that pans out.

So from my perspective I don’t feel as though I have initiated the potential break up with owners. I’m not trying to oust them and I’m not a pitchfork in hand type of person. THEY are the ones who are making a move in the direction of decoupling from LFC.

OK, it might yet be partial investment, and we need to see what happens. But FSG have made the move to dilute or leave, hence the whole conversation.

My preference would be FSG staying in a rules based order, and being fully engaged to maximize the team’s prospects.

Two issues there - it is not a rules based order, and teams have trampled over weak financial parameters. The governing authorities have let us down, badly.

Second, the owners do not appear to be fully engaged. I’m not naive to think that they would be die hard lifelong reds, but they have stepped back. I don’t know when we last saw John Henry, and since the failed Super League he seems to have checked out. Even if I’m being unfair and he was never going to be more of a hands on owner, or at least present, then FSG did have a key man to do that. Mike Gordon. Stakeholder in FSG. Key representative between ownership group and footballing operation. Apparently a very clever fella. Seemed to have a great relationship with all the key people - Jurgen, Edwards, Ward.

But Gordon has stepped back from that in order to concentrate on investment and/or sale.

In addition to this, key people at the club are leaving. I don’t know the degree to which some of it is natural churn in a professional environment, but it feels like more than that.

So, my preference would be an engaged FSG, grabbing hold of it and making it happen, but it very much feels like they are in a holding pattern, and in top level football you are either building it up or going backwards. We have the feel of the latter, right now.

So… who would I rather have?

If there is a new owner or group who can give us the strengths of FSG, PLUS a little more willingness to invest into the squad - not via cheating or illicit means, but within the financial parameters set forth - then that’s the owner I would like to see.

Assuming FSG have decided to leave.

Beyond that, if it is someone like Qatar Investment Authority, I would not like it one bit, but I suspect I would hold my nose and continue to support the team.

I would hate what the game has become - for many reds that feeling has been growing over the years - but I would try to concentrate on supporting the team, and the manager, while not really thinking of the owners.

Arguably there would be a certain cognitive dissonance in that, but truthfully for me, I don’t know that I could walk away if we get an owner I disapprove of.

In many ways we already have that, with hedge fund managers buying a distressed asset and getting themselves a 10x payday, if they sell. We already have owners who culturally and politically are far removed from the ethos of much of the city of Liverpool. If they sold to someone like QIA it would be another step to widen that gap.

Anyway, I’m rambling!

Summary:

  1. FSG have initiated the break up, or dilution

  2. My preference would be for them to stay, in a rules based order

  3. Failing that, someone like FSG, bringing their calm, bringing their business savvy, but with more willingness to invest in the squad - not cheating or doping, but going farther into the permissible parameters than the current owners.

  4. If such a group does not emerge, and FSG decide to sell to someone like QIA, I wouldn’t like it, but would still probably support the team and manager, while disapproving of the owners.

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I’m not sure what the obsession with owners needing to be present is. I couldn’t be arsed if they were never at Anfield, as long as they brought the right people in to run the club. And by and large, despite a few teething problems initially, they have, and kept these people together for a long time.

Not to mention, in The Athletic article about it at the time, Gordon is described as having run things from Boston anyway, and that Hogan (who became CEO in 2020 by the way) was taking over the responsibilities that Gordon had before. Who’s to say that it isn’t just the natural, planned transition?

There’s really too much obsessing over the fact that FSG are looking for new shareholders, especially when they always have been. I feel like this is just the narrative that has taken over simply because some journalist at the time decided that it would be a good story to get clicks given that Chelsea and Newcastle had not too long ago been sold.

If we weren’t doing badly this season I doubt any of this would even be remarkable.

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I’m not wishing for anything, you’ve jumped to a lot of conclusions, I’m asking a lot of questions.

In fact, it feels very similar to Rafa’s last season. He took his eye off the ball as he was fighting H&G. Is something similar going on? I don’t know. I’ve been hapy with FSG but not buying a midfielder and keeping Ox, Naby was a big mistake. Who’s mistake? I don’t know.

When I say crap, not as crap as Roy, obviously but we are crap. The fact anyone is having to compare us to Roy or Brendan to say we’re not as crap says it all as to our form. The 2nd half against Brighton I can’t remember a shot on goal or a real chance. Our defending is atrocious, uncoordinated. Against Wolves, long diagonal balls were being pinged to to Traore, who was allowed to get the ball under control unchallenged (good job he’s crap). I can only presume the defender is told to stay compact

This season has been terrible no to ways about it. If FSG plan to adminster the club the way they have this season and not the way they have the previous 9 or whatever seasons, then yeah, clear off.

Excellent post (apart from the rambling hehehe).

FSG have checked out is an excellent way to put it. That’s what it seems to me too.

I don’t think he means present as in physically but more mentally, emotionally invested in the club. Being present sometimes is a way to show that.

Sorry, I seem to have responded to myself. Not sure how I did that.

For LFC, there isn’t a need to openly cheat or dope as the club is not even close to infringing FFP at all. I don’t think the club is even making an operating loss to start with.

GIven the global lure of this club, it will look completely justified for this club to rake in a 100-200 million “marketing” deal per season from an Arab company.

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The piece is junk. FSG made no promise to conduct business as usual during the sale process given they have never admitted to being open to an exit. When asked directly about it by the Athletic during the initial reporting of Morgan Stanley Goldman Sachs’ involvement they just reiterated what they have always said about seeking the right partners -

"“FSG has frequently received expressions of interest from third parties seeking to become shareholders in Liverpool. FSG has said before that under the right terms and conditions we would consider new shareholders if it was in the best interests of Liverpool as a club.

“FSG remains fully committed to the success of Liverpool, both on and off the pitch."

The piece treats the idea as a fact that they have become absent in operations preventing big decisions being made because of the sale, then treats that as a violation of a promise. But they never made the promise because the context it is supposed to exist in is made up. If you take out of the picture the idea they are actively looking for an exit and take their public statements on face value, statements entirely consistent wit the involvement of the investment banks, then the entire context for what has happened to our team is completely different. It is just things that have gone wrong or a picture we cannot yet see rather than a club being abandoned and allowed to falter.

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The word “if” doing some heavy lifting.

None of us know what’s going on. Could just be some terrible decisions by Klopp on the tactics and players who stays/goes plays where aspect of things. Could be FSG have checked out.

What it doesn’t feel like is a dip in form.

Not really, seeing as my compliant is about an article being premised on things he’s completely made up yet treating as agreed upon fact.

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I think people are confusing, as always, being widely reported with being factual.

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Ad populum fallacy. Must be true, millions believe it….

Nope, not at all. Condescending, much. My view is based on this season compared to the previous ones under FSG.

My comment was directed generally, my apologies if you saw yourself in it.

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No problemo.

Just to be clear, I mean it in a wider sense as well, not just reports about the narrower situation with regards to where FSG stand on the new shareholders issue.

Too many people believe that if we’re linked to a player, it must be true.

May be true for other clubs, but I think our recent history has more than amply shown that nobody in the press knows what’s going on in the club. Fans then get themselves all worked up over something that’s entirely fictional, and then blame the club.

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Ok, let’s stop the word play jousting. It’s boring. That article could br made up nonsense, it could have some truth in it, even if more by luck than judgement.

What do you think is going on this season? Or is it just business as usual?

Why can’t it be business as usual, and yet suffering from some poor luck?

It’s not like we don’t have history demonstrating we’re more than willing to bring in a loan to fix a temporary need that has emerged from injuries, while waiting for the right player.

Look at Caulker (that didn’t work out so well), and Kabak. The similarities are also that these are usually players that show some promise or have demonstrated some significant ability, but have questions over whether they can do it consistently, or whether they’re able to fulfil that promise (and hence in the case of Kabak, have an option to buy). I don’t see much difference from the loan of Arthur.

Meanwhile, we’ve suffered from injuries cropping up literally almost every single game, which is far more than anyone else in the league has had to deal with. Not surprising therefore that we could barely put out a team in sync with each other nor with any energy.

For all their better start, taking out the most recent games for either club, we were just 1 point behind City in a trailing 10 games table. It suggests that the club coming closest to the number of fixtures that our team played is also suffering from that.

So, I don’t think it’s too wrong to say that it’s business as usual in a certain sense. This is simply a hangover from an extraordinary season.

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Not that it has any relevance to what’s going on in the real world , but is it possible to have a poll to gauge opinion as to if FSG should stay or sell up completely?

Would find it interesting to see the opinion on here .

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Feels like Brexit all over again…

Should FSG Remain as Liverpool owners, or should they Leave?

Absolutely…

Just need to find how to open the poll correctly… :man_facepalming: :man_facepalming: