Depends if you want to selectively choose which ex player is talking.
You’d find some which said it wasn’t a penalty, I’d find one who said it was.
Then it’s down to who you want to side with.
I think the whole official/VAR set up is corrupt, showing bias towards or against certain teams, you obviously dont
It’s not the pundits etc not thinking it’s a penalty that bothers me, It’s the fact they’re at best being disingenuous to justify it.
Doku did not get there first, that’s a fact, but all the coverage of it I’ve seen claims he did and I’m to just not trust my lying eyes.
Now he’s not late by much and I think he had eyes on the ball the whole time and if they don’t want to give it, whatever. But let’s not lie to justify it.
Honestly I care far less about it not being given than I do everyone refusing to acknowledge Mac gets there first.
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You appear to be arguing against points I have not made. I am simply pointing out the existence of people associated with the game who somehow are claiming it was not a foul and find it incredibly difficult to understand how they could be being driven by such a conspiracy. People on Sky, sure. People not associated with the broadcasts that is far harder to argue. The alternate example is everyone is talking about of their arse about their own interpretation of the rules.
It is worth pointing out though that general lack of clarity within the game, both of the refs and pundits, of what constitutes a foul, doesnt preclude there also being bias in play.
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I’m not arguing at all.
But in your point about the opinions of people not associated with the broadcasts, consider the alternative example that you’re underestimating how much dislike there is for Liverpool Football Club, our supporters, and the city as a whole from those who don’t support the club.
Whether it’s driven by jealousy of our dominance (and supporters cockiness) all those years ago, Heysell, the fact we don’t support the English national team, we boo the national anthem.
It’s a lot more real than you obviously think, and would be a simple enough excuse for them to jump to the defence of clearly outrageous decisions against us.
You can both be partly right. Oliver is corrupt but pundits who think it wasn’t a pen are just stupid or naively convinced of Oliver’s honesty
This isnt monty python.
There is a universe of football that has nothing to do with us. The PGMOL and the collection of talking heads who cover those games talk absolutely fucking shite about those games as well.
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Yes.
But this thread has been discussing the very small section of that universe who expressed views on the Doku non penalty, and the possible reasons they came to the conclusions they did.
I can’t keep your pace, I’m out.
Regardless of how convoluted and unclear they’ve made the rules, anyone who has ever kicked a ball at any level will know that was a clear foul.
Pundits, fans, officials claiming otherwise aren’t doing so due to the lack of clarity but because they are either bending their perception to match their own agendas and biases or they are lying through their teeth knowing full well that it was a penalty, but they prefer to look stupid and irrational rather than admit it.
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We all know what a foul is. There is miniscule room for interpretation of the rules, but by in large a foul is a foul. Professional referees should know this. If any other profession differed in opinion on such a scale it would lead to mass sackings.
Doku fouled MacAllister. We surely all KNOW this.
Oliver wimped out because:
A) He was scared of a media backlash
B) He is corrupt and on the Abu Dhabi payroll
C) He is an arrogant prick who thinks he is beyond reproach
D) All of the above
The celebrity of referees is a cancer on the game. SKY are inadvertently responsible with the likes of Gallagher getting airtime every Monday.
They shouldn’t be bigger than those players they are refereeing.
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100% this.
Well said.
Pundits? Always this answer.
This is such a weird, indefensible perspective. But even more so that I know you don’t even believe it (consistently) having freely admitted you believe it is a foul if its against us and not a foul if it is by us.
No.
Once again you misinterpret. I guess purposely.
I admit partisanship, which I am pretty sure is the provice of most football supporters. Insofar as overly complaining when decisions effect the clubs we follow. Is there a requirement to apologise for a partisan stance?
There really isn’t.
Anyway. There is also cold light of day.
I answered your hypothesis that no one really understands what a foul is. You said it was clear to you.
My point is that the majority of supporters/players etc know what a foul is. Its referees interpretations that cause the problems.
Its a convenient get out of jail card for officials if they are excused with the no one really understands viewpoint.
Webb can talk nonsense and fair minded supporters will agree, after all they don’t really understand the game. Get back in your lane sort of stuff.
The crux of the matter on here is the obvious decisions made against Liverpool. Season defying decisions.
And partisanship aside, we can all see it. Some a bit more than others.
Doku fouled MacAllister. We all know its a foul.
The bigger more uncomfortable questions are about why its not awarded.
Yes, but….
A large part of the football economy is now based around social media engagement, and two biggest clubs in England are Liverpool and Manchester United.
There are other clubs who have had dreadful decisions (Wolves have been on the end of some absolute shockers) but nobody loves/hates those teams like they do Liverpool. We bring the clicks, so I think we do find ourselves discussed and clipped more often.
Being a ref is a difficult job. That’s true. Those that come through to the top need to overcome a lot of abuse thrown their way by idiots. Up and down the country on Sunday amateur games, there will be idiots haranguing the refs.
Now, having said all that. this doesn’t stop genuine criticism. That’s normal and should be expected. Going back to the Prem topic, Richard Keys (yes I know) said in his blog a few months ago:
“I’m in the luxurious position of being able to say what I think about the falling standards of officialdom in our top league - but imagine taking a call from a high ranking PL broadcast official reminding you who pays your wages. Scary. It happened to two people that I know recently. The message was clear ‘stop criticising the refs’. What sort of world are we living in when people who run the game also want to steer the narrative?”
After the game, I suspect another phone call was made to tone down the view Sky Sports took. The excuses were given out to gas light everyone This also extends to the propaganda show…sorry, MIC’d up, where it’s blatantly obvious gaslighting is going on.
Those idiots that overstep the boundary should be dealt with. What should not be happening is being immune from criticism, as it will lead to these sorts of twisted decisions.
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I do wonder whether those that come through from grass roots are largely those that enjoy the abuse and get off on having power over people and winding people up? I helped out a couple of times with refereeing kids games and I frankly couldn’t be bothered with that shit week in and week out. Having said that, I do find the standard of refereeing in the Bundesliga to be better.
Posted this in the other refs thread as well. Its too good to waste.
An articulate, even if partisan take on the Doku assault.
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The only thing I would disagree with is “VAR has given them a get-out clause”.
It’s actually quite the opposite. Before VAR it was perfectly reasonable for a referee to say that they hadn’t seen an incident properly on the pitch. You can argue that it is their job to watch the game properly but, with the best will in the world, they can only see one incident, from one angle, once.
With VAR introduced, they can see exactly the same thing that we can, but with the ability to go over and review it from every angle. They have lost their get-out clause. It’s not that they didn’t see an incident but that they chose to see what they wanted to.
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On a different, but related note, can anyone explain to me the economics of Reach Media making their websites completely unloadable?
I get the need to saturate the pages with ads - local journalism isn’t cheap - but surely there is a point where this becomes counter-productive.
I’d love to know what Robbie thinks about Howard Webb, but it just isn’t happening.
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