The fact that technology is being used more to justify the umpiring decisions and not to overrule them is the biggest drawback in the current system.
The DRS system and the officials should be independent of the PGMOL. No old mates club.
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Umpires?? Really?
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Old habits related to watching cricket
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I have no problem with refs making mistakes as it is a high speed game that involves contact, it is the VAR that needs censuring as it is they that see the replays and can then help the ref make the correct decision. Penalties, serious foul play and adjudicating when a foul may have occurred when a goal is scored are what the VAR need to get right.
All this crap about re refereeing a game, no one cares the fans just want them to get decisions right andif it means re refereeing then do so, it will take pressure off the refs as they cannot be in position all the time to be able to call correctly 100% of the time
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Old mates clubs are how Britain is run and is also 90% of why the place is a titting mess.
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this. x 300%.
goes back to my point about the game being between two teams, not three teams.
the refs arent part of a team, they are there to solely administer the rules of the gameâŚno one would really care if they made a mistake that was then corrected⌠i mean the game is so fast and furious now it would be impossible to get everything right, every week, but i for one wouldnt bat an eyelid if incorrect calls were corrected there and then
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The problem is you need to go past this and get to a process that achieves this without causing significant disruption. When so much of what the ref has to do is so subjective, how do you define what is a wrong decision and use VAR in a way that doesnt leave the fans frustrated at the number and length of stoppages?
All the âwe just have to get it right, Jimâ comments in threads like these just skate right past that difficult bit of actually figuring out what a process would like to be able to do that.
Re the Grealish penalty appeal⌠Heard it stated that Grealish was bringing his arm back to his side, and it was therefore in a natural position - Watching the reply again, Grealish has used the same arm of his, on the shoulder of the guy next to him in the wall, to gain more leverage for jumping higher to block the ball going over his head - Surely, The Cheaters canât have it both ways⌠Either keep your arms at your side/covering your town halls⌠OR⌠try and gain the advantage of springing to the extra height, and therefore, run the risk of the ball hitting the arm as it arcs back to his sideâŚ!!
If it hits the arm - penalty all day long⌠If it hits the arm when it was tucked in, then maybe notâŚ!
The VAR numptyâs are terrified of discommoding Oliver
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The problem lies with the idea that what the ref has to do is subjective.
There are laws in the game, and for the main part they are black and white.
Subjective shouldnât enter the conversation.
VAR should be there to alert referees to when they make mistakes, and then the refs should look at the replay before deciding action.
Subjectivity surrounding application of laws allows for the current ineptitude and biases. Unfortunately refs are becoming part of the game, rather than officials who ensure fairness and equity.
The advent of Gallagher et al on TV is not good for the game. Collina had personality and gained respect
The PMGOL wannabes are inferior models.
This is an statement akin to arguing the sun rises in the west. Once someone has given this as their position there is simply no possibility of any discussion.
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Your constant stance is that application of the laws is subjective. Given the belief that referees have the choice, the autonomy to arbitrate over the application of the law.
Thats akin to saying a policeman can decide if the murderer really meant his actions.
Your position on every discussion on referees is intransigent, as you see them as having more power than the laws allow them.
All mention of interpretation or subjectivity is a methodology they use to absolve themselves of blame when they fuck up.
Supporters of the game buying into that premise is akin to saying the sun rises at different places, whenever suits it best.
I am genuinely at a loss to even understand how someone can come to the argument that the rules (with regards to foul play) are not subjective. As a single simple and illustrative example, this is how the rules define handball
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You have correctly argued against your own stance here.
The example you gave is stating what is a handball. A deliberate hand ball.
Its not subjective in this instance, its very objective.
We are aware of accidental handball, thats where the refs choose subjectivity to muddy the waters when they get it wrong. As in Oliver on Sunday.
This is embarrassing.
Is determining if something is deliberate subjective or objective?
What about clause 2? Is it subjective or objective to judge whether someoneâs arm position was ânot a consequence of or justifiable by the playerâs body movement for that specific situationâ?
Can you not discuss anything that you disagree with without the snide comments? In fairness, even though I disagree with you I am being respectful.
You are so stuck in the notion of subjectivity in refereeing that you believe all their decisions are based upon their interpretation.
The laws are simple.
In answer to your first questionâŚ
Michael Oliver was subjective, as was VAR in the Man City handball on Saturday.
The objective decision would be penalty to Chelsea, the correct decision.
By allowing the premise of subjectivity enter the equation, Chelsea are denied a penalty.
Same as Odegaard vs Liverpool.
Objectivity takes precedence to ensure fairness.
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Why canât the referees have a watch, or small screen tablet that they can review the images/play while they remain in the middle of the park/game. No one would be any the wiser what was communicated between VAR and the referee during the game this way.
The referee could view his small screen, if it is still vague, let him then head to the bigger screen pitch-side⌠or is this just too simple an idea to have any merit - 
Something has to change though. Too much money involved in the game now for it to be resting on the shoulders of some numpty
Sorry @Quicksand, youâre having a mare here.
Sound @Prolix
Good of you to get involved.
Edit
I believe that Laws of the Game require objective application. The notion of subjectivity in application of any laws leads to inconsistency and difficulty.
How do we decide what is a handball? Its clear within the rules? How do we determine what is accidental? Once again this is covered in the rules. The refs and VAR are professionals. Do their job correctly and we are all ok. Take decisions into their own hands and we have discontent.
Anyway, you reckon I am having a mare.
So be it.
not really. as with most things the answer is sometimes as simple as doing the task properly.
nothing majorly wrong with the framework as it is⌠if VAR cant review a yellow card the VAR cant review a yellow card⌠but just review decisions correctly.
theres nothing ambigious about the Grealish handball or the Diaz offside, they just have to make the correct decision.
the barb about me being a basic âwe just have to get it right , jimâ type of poster is not well recieved to be honest, its directed as insult as if i couldnt possibly come to grips with the scale of the task aheadâŚwhen i can, and i still come to the conclusion that the system isnt the issue, its the people applying it.
refs will make mistakes, a video review system is in place for certain aspects of the game, if applied practically and correctly this system should be of net benefit to the game.
i know what your point is about the grey lines in the rulebook, but whats the solution? re write the code? thanks, no thanks.
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Well said.
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