The Referees or The Twelfth Man

All fair points, my biggest issue with refs and VAR is the secrecy of communications and the general lack of accountability.

If a player has a poor game, the fans and media will slag them off, the manager will dig them out, whether that is privately 1-on-1, or in the changing room in front of the team, or publicly in the media (if the manager is a particularly nasty cunt and has no people skills). If a manager has a shocker and gets their team selection, subs wrong, again they get slagged off by fans, the media and pundits and likely have to answer for the bad performance to the board.

If a ref or VAR have a bad game, they close ranks around the individual, fine or suspend any manager that has the audacity to speak out against the ref and protect them at all cost. Very rarely do you see refs get dropped and it stick, most of the time it will be 1 or 2 games then they get brought back into the mix, that isn’t really a punishment. I personally think 3 easy fixes would solve a number of the issues, but I doubt that PGMOL and the FA would allow them.

  1. All communications between refs, lines people and VAR are broadcast over the stadium pa system, so everyone can hear what is being discussed and the process and reasoning that goes into making a decision. Broadcasters would be in a position to make sure fans watching all around the world know what is then going on.

I doubt PGMOL would allow this as my honest opinion is it would show that most officials don’t fully know, understand howw to interpret the laws of the game and they would be shown to be incompetent.

  1. Post game, both managers and the 2 captaisn get to sit down with the officials to go through the game and clarify any decisions or arguments without fear of any penalty or reprisal. Once that meeting has taken place they can’t critisise the officials. Any media prior to that meeting, then as long as they aren’t slanderous they should be allowed to critisise a ref’s performance, but once they have met the ref and aired their complaints, then they can’t comment publicly.

  2. I would overhaul VAR. Firstly, I would split VAR and ref’s, you can do 1 or the other, but not both. I would also do away with Stockley Park, and have VAR at the ground, so that they are actually part of the ref team, and I would use it in a similar way to RU, where the ref is able to use VAR to look back and assist them to get the right decision. Under it’s currnet demise, ref’s don’t like VAR as it is there to point out their fuck ups, change the way it is used to be another tool for them to be able to access and I think it would be more favorably veiwed by refs.

I would also think there should be a minimum standard that each ref should be achieving, whether that be done every season, or every 2nd season and if they fail to reach that standard then they need to be dropped.

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Those ideas, good as they are wont run with PMGOL.
There is too much for them to give up. And their collective ego won’t allow it.

I think Point 3 is perfect. A double lock on contentious decisions that close of poor interpretation of the laws of the game.

I’ve suggested something similar in the past. The biggest problem with referees is ego.

I see a lot of grassroots refereeing, as I coach youth football, and - no exaggeration - I’ve seen teenagers make better decisions than the clowns who get premier league gigs.

It feels paradoxical, but then you release that the traits that carry someone to elite referee status are not the things you’d expect. It’s pig-headedness, thick-skin, an unwavering high opinion of yourself and monstrous ego. If a referee doesn’t have those things, they aren’t going to survive being abused, threatened and attacked on a weekly basis.

I think this inflated sense of their own abilities is behind a lot of the things we instinctively call corruption. Michael Oliver is a good example of this. In Michael Oliver’s head there is no problem with Michael Oliver taking paid referee gigs in the UAE because Michael Oliver thinks Michael Oliver is too good a referee to be influenced by this. Despite a growing body of evidence that Oliver is very much influenced by his UAE links.

I think there has to be discussions in the close season about refereeing, because it’s obviously in a state of crisis at the minute. The clubs and Premier League have to demand PGMOL get its shit together.

The way VAR is implemented now is a halfway house between ignoring their ego and indulging it.

VAR needs to be one of two things.

a) a totally independent secondary referee, who can tell the on field referee that he has got a decision wrong, and overrule it. The VAR pool and the Ref pool are kept completely separate. No VAR operator should feel scared or intimidated to reach the correct decision.

b) a tool at the disposal of the referee that can be called in by the on field referee to check a decision.

I would prefer a) as I think it’s cleaner, and, to be Frank, fuck their egos. But it can’t stay as it is - it’s farcical.

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https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/04/the-5-premier-league-referees-who-cant-officiate-liverpool-revealed/?

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I was aware that there were some that were barred, but childhood allegiance seems to be the only bar that they use. I mean do you seriously think that Mike Dean didn’t have an opinion on Liverpool or Everton?

I think Tomkins has drawn up a per ref bias chart. It tends to say some very unpleasant things about them.

FWIW, I didn’t make or insinuate any such comment. I stand by my comment that your proposed solution of just wanting to get it right is not a solution at all and just whistles past the complexities involved in using VAR effectively (what does right even mean when there is no objective criteria for the foul in question), but I utterly reject that being characterized as a personal attack.

To help combat the ever increasing number of on field howlers from referees, which VAR was brought in to help alleviate, the top clubs need to get together and demand that protocol is changed.
Referees should be contractually obliged to explain their performances post match, same as manager and players.
These cunts are calling all the shots in a game where they are a by product, not the main attraction.

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Therein lies the biggest problem.
They are celebrities, Gallagher and Walton on TV…Webb talking bollox with Michael Owen.
Oliver, in the employ of City’s owners…

Sooner people stop putting them on a pedestal the better.

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You forgot Clattenberg on Gladiators

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What chance have we got in hoping referees and VAR officials become more competent and consistent when you have the official Premier League Twitter account highlighting this like it’s some kind of fucking joke?

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/1785600059268051216

But is undoing a keepers glove a foul?

I would be surprised if it is mentioned in the laws of the game

Edit: If Ben White wants to pull shit like that, then what is to stop keepers walking off the pitch any time he does it to force the ref to stop the game meaning the arse would likely lose whatever advantage it is designed to create.

I would think it is likely to be considered unsporting conduct.

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My guess is, White is trying to wind the keeper up, so he reacts and gets himself a yellow or red card. White is a horrible, arrogant prick.

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Probably the most succint reading of the situation

That would be the likely reading I suspect, but if I were a ref, I would be reluctunt to give a free kick against Ben White.

Giving a free kick for shithousery tactic like that is giving keepers a way to convert defending a corner into being awarded a free kick for themselves. I think the easiest way to deal with something like this would be to stop the game to allow the keeper to fix their gloves which would negate any advantage the attacking team thinks they might gain, and add that stopped time on at the end of the half/game

I wouldn’t have a go at the referee, I don’t think it’s obvious enough for him to see, but if he did see it it’s one of those where he blows his whistle, tells Ben White to stop being a prick, and then cracks on.

Not sure why the league governing body would find this amusing.
Another indicator of how fucked football is.

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That’s because you’re thinking of it as a sport.

They quite clearly think of it as entertainment.

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No
Its business

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:+1:

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