I actually have some sympathy with refs. The law makers have completely lost their way, have over complicated everything, brought in chasms of interpretation and basically stripped on field officials of their authority.
They also seem unwilling to properly review performances and hold officials to account for incorrect decision making.
We’re watching football in a world where the same action can be interpreted and judged in polar opposite ways and both be considered “correct” based on the interpretation of the law. Then you bring VAR in and their interpretation and recommendation is dependent on what decision the ref gave on the field.
There should be no way our goal is disallowed yesterday based on the fact City’s against Wolves last year stood. And yet you can have a scenario where VAR will come to two different conclusions depending on what the ref has called originally. But the ref has a split second to make a call and probably has zero recollection of what they or any other ref has done faced with a similar decision last time.
It leads to a ridiculous outcome where one goal stands and the other is ruled out and VAR has zero consistency in it’s role in order to reach the same conclusion. There should not be a set of laws or applications of those as well as the role of VAR where the two outcomes are not the same.
There more frustrating example was a Chelsea game the other week, I think Bournemouth where they conceded a goal in a similar circumstance that was allowed to stand. The argument there was the Bournemouth player in an offside position was close enough to the Chelsea defender that he was not blocking the goalie’s vision to any greater degree than the defender already was, so the goal was allowed to stand
As for the Real pen…you cannot give a corner if the game has stopped before the ball goes out. That is why that part of the rule has been created. But that rolls naturally into a protocol of the ref being made to take a beat before blowing his whistle so the play has more chance to naturally resolve in a way that makes a restart more satisfying if the original decision is overturned.
Corrupt is the word I would use. Before the match started, I saw lots of messages on social media with Liverpool fans wondering how fast he would fuck us over. It took about 10 minutes until there was the penalty decision. It was utter bullshit. If there had been any contact on the keeper it was after the player had thrown themselves to the ground. Even after that was saved, he looked at every angle looking for a retake.
It’s not just us, either. I know a lot of Manchester United fans have their own beef with Oliver, and much of it is entirely justified.
The upshot of this is that it ruins the entertainment. Losing games is disappointing, but I accept that as part of the game. But essentially seeing a no-contest because you know that certain officials will throw the game ruins everything. Even on games we win, knowing that you aren’t watching a level playing field makes a total nonsense of the match.
I watch a fair chunk of Bundesliga as well and, whilst you will occasionally see mistakes, you don’t get this constant one sided officiating.
That isn’t a reasonable application of the law. Yes, had the ref talken a moment it would have been clearer, but also when he blows the whistle the ball is well on its way out, and no-one can do anything to prevent it going out.
I do understand that the referee technically blows his whistle before the ball is out of play, but that would be putting the technical application of the law above a common sense application.
I can’t remember who said it in the match thread but I’ll echo their sentiment, at this point I think it would be worth Slot absolutely panning him in a post match interview or press conference. Take the fine or ban or whatever but make it impossible for him to be anywhere near our games again.
I think there is now a demonstrable track record to demonstrate that he does not referee us fairly, and I would expect the club to raising this with PGMOL.
I do think it goes beyond us. He was the ref who allowed 2 separate red card tackles from the same City player without ever sending him off in a key game between them and Arsenal a couple of seasons ago and then was involved in at least one of Arsenal’s soft reds last season.
Its not any individual decision that is problematic, but the balance of how many dubious ones go in City’s favour when he is anywhere to be found at the game. And this from a man who has been paid exorbitant fees for additional work by the sports washing owners of the team who always seem to be befit from his presence.
At this point it is not even a question of believing any of this is real but more that the perceptions of conflict of interest are as important to manage as the existence of real ones, and that all makes it untenable to have him involved anymore in any games with direct implications for City
Its bloody legalism, the ever increasing inclusion of specific types of proscribed lists of ‘offence’ which excludes a gateway general unfairness entry point, such as was the case prior, with ‘unfair advantage’ which I believe is removed from the rules. reintroduce that and all this gets fixed. But of course they know that.
It is genuinely baffling and infuriating as a fan. I can only imagine how it feels for a player or manager.
And I know I say this quite often on here but if you also watch rugby and see how they officiate the game it becomes even more startling just how bad football has become and how poorly they’ve integrated video officiating into the game.
It really is at a point where it’s ruining a lot of the enjoyment as it’s complete pot luck as to what set of rules you’re playing to game to game.
That van Dijk goal changes that game yesterday. Strong possibility we go into half time level instead of two behind. Given the way we were playing I’m not naive enough to think there’s not still a strong chance we go on and lose but ultimately the officials have had far too much influence there for us not to feel aggrieved.
For comment more than anything else, the problems discussed above are very much present in my other sport, Aussie Rules, a game that is notoriously difficult to adjudicate.
They add new rules every year, or nuance existing ones by slightly amending the normative interpretations, and it drives everyone fucking nuts.
In the end it is just more words on a page to interpret and fuck up, and it’s the fan that suffers by continuously feeling further removed from what it was they fell in love with. I guess the desire to do all of this is driven by the need to protect and maximise ‘the product’ (£$£$£$)
Thats interesting as @rab make a good point above, but when I watch Rugby Union, why is they can get it right, but all other field sports seem to be caught up in a spin off of Big Brother! so It can be got right, just seems in football they like this slippage, what else can it be?!
Ha ha ha, we’ve contacted Howard Webb to express our concern. I’m sure he’ll give a fuck.
I’m at the stage where I’d be more than happy for the club to just call them a shower of cheating cunts and say we have zero confidence in being refereed fairly, regardless of consequences.
Wondered at the time…when Virgil’s goal was disallowed…and a few other calls were obviously wrong…the players must start thinking…we are playing against 11 men and a set of ankers, who seem to have ulterior motives, so what the f***k is the point in playing…I understand they are professionals and always want to win, but the continuous wrong decisions, blatant twisting of the rules must play on their minds…
I think it’s easy to only see this through the lens of Liverpool but it’s far from just an issue impacting us.
You’ll never get fans to unite on the issue but I’m amazed there’s not been some collective league wide pressure put on the PGMOL by the clubs. We want to be seen as the best league in the world. We want that global audience to keep giving us the financial advantage over other leagues. We want the best players, coaches and fans. And yet they have to put up with piss poor officiating and an even more incompetent body governing the officiating of the game.
And yet managers get sent off for questioning decisions. They get fined if they say something in an interview about them. Clubs cop a load of flack when they make public statements on their own. If I was sat in an owners meeting I’d be asking if the league felt the quality of officiating was suitable for the level of football being played. Because from a fan perspective it’s a fucking mile off.
I think one reason our games are officiated by the same small pool of referees, is because normally our games are shown live across the globe. The PGMOL in their wisdom, and not wanting to appear the shite organisation that they actually are… keep inflicting their ‘cream of the crop’ nominees onto us, thus, the world stage.
A Saturday afternoon 3pm kick-off, with no televised ‘live’ coverage… and then there is a chance we get someone else from outside the ‘boys club’ closed shop they operate
