In the Bundesliga I’ve even seen a goal wiped off and a penalty awarded at the other end because the goal was scored following an incident that should have been (and then was) awarded as a penalty. That felt a bit harsh but you could see that the logic was correctly followed through.
The one thing I’ve seen commented on by fans and commentators of all persuasions is how shambolic the whole system appeared to be (aside from Oli Kahout, the VAR exec). We haven’t heard the rest of the coverage but I’m wondering if that is far more damning and shows England making mistakes-on-purpose.
England either made the mistake on purpose or he wasn’t paying the slightest bit of attention. There aren’t any other explanations. Either way, clearly he and Dan Cook are not capable of running VAR, they don’t know what is happening on the pitch and they do not know how to communicate.
The trip to the UAE surely did not make England so fatigued that he couldn’t look at a monitor for 2 hours. That’s the line of questioning the media are exploring, none of them want to touch the suggestion that corruption or bias has played its part. Every article I’ve read has been at pains to say they’re not questioning the referees integrity. Why not? What is it about English referees that make them incorruptable?
I’ve been reading a book on cricket stats recently, the authors talk about the decision by the ICC years ago to bring in neutral umpires for international games. Before that, the arguments for home umpires were all about it being a gentleman’s game, trusting the umpires to be impartial etc, yet the data shows neutral umpires to be fairer to the away sides than home umpires. No shit. Here, we have referees being paid by City’s owners, and last year they were reffing games in Saudi, but to suggest those sides might benefit from this arrangement is flat earth territory apparently.
There’s a very obvious conflict of interests. Questions of integrity absolutely should be raised. Howard Webb greenlighted these trips.
For me, Webb has to go and England/Cook should be demoted. That’s the starting point. Referees should be taken off VAR and specialists hired and trained. This incident and Mike Dean’s admissions make it clear they are not capable of handling VAR and sporting integrity is being compromised.
That is undeniable. I’m not sure why this isn’t being mentioned because “conflict of interest” doesn’t necessarily mean corruption. It means that there are circumstances whereby the impartiality of the individual could be questioned or compromised. This is why we don’t have referees officiating the games of their boyhood team. It’s not that we are saying they are corrupt - it’s that we don’t want the situation to arise that the accusation could be aimed at them.
I think Michael Oliver might have relayed the fuck-up to Hooper almost immediately… Hooper’s face on hearing this, tells its own story.
After half-time, because of the unfolding shit-storm that is bound to come down, I don’t believe Hooper was in any fit state, mentally, to referee the second half in a calm and decisive manner - His head was obviously gone… Bit like you know you can drive, but on the day of your test, it is easy enough to go to pieces and fail to do the basic things properly.
In that second half, Hooper had the pressure of knowing what had gone before cannot be turned back, coupled with the possibility of regally fucking up again in the coming 45minute second period.
The conversation between Oliver and Hooper would probably explain the system is worse again, than we already know it to be.
Really not expecting a replay but would be great if it happens.
Hope our club goes all the way with that and it doesn’t feel cringe or embarrassing to me at all.
I think it’s English/british mentality to say ‘let all the parties end this case respectfully with some statements and move on’. This is where I’m happy that the club is run ‚internationally‘ with the owners and Jürgen Klopp has huge power/influence.
Doubt we would have got to hear the audio with Kenny or BR in charge.
Feel like this won’t be resolved quickly and PGMOL will hope that things will calm down.
If that happens i think they will be playing with fire - especially if we end up in a tight title or Top4 race.
It’s interesting when you see who they claim to support. It’s often some bullshit non-league outfit.
Michael Oliver is open about being a Newcastle fan. I think the only other current one that claims to be a fan of a PL side is Stuart Attwell who supports Luton.
So all the rest, who presumably grew up in the late 70s and 80s don’t support Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Everton etc etc…?
I also remember that lots of teams objected to Mike Dean having anything to do with our games. He claims to be a Tranmere fan and he is a regular face in the crowd at Prenton Park. However, it’s difficult to imagine that there are many Tranmere fans that don’t have an opinion about us one way or the other.
Twice Hoopers hand goes to his right ear where his earpiece was while the ball was out for the throw(1.28 & 1.40).While,and just after the throw was being taken,i think you can see in Hoopers movement that there is something going on with him ie.he has just been told something and is unsettled by it.
I did expect a reaction from the club, even if parts of our statement were very confusing. I do understand that statements generally have a lot of words and phrases that aren’t made for “mortals”.
Neville’s reaction was shite, some media I saw reporting only parts of our statement (whatever it is, it should be reported in full) is also poor.
Klopp said yesterday in the presser that he wouldn’t have used the word “escalation”. I don’t think he’s a massive factor here, I actually get the impression he will want to continue calmly and perhaps use this as motivation inside. He will not keep banging about it for weeks in press conferences.
My feeling is that we will not get much more from this, but possibly influence and speed up some changes that can be made immediately.
The last thing the PGMOL would want to be exposed… is that their referee was aware of the injustice within the clawback time frame, to rectify the situation… but that he failed to use a common sense approach - Besides, they have already stated Hooper was NOT informed until half-time…
It is a professional game, that is being led by amateurs…
I too hope LFC keep the flames of this flickering, and for a long time yet
He’s gone through some kind of decision process in his mind that’s lead him to dishing out cards like there’s no tomorrow and give us nothing. I can’t get beyond thinking that’s linked to the discussions he’s had with the other officials. I’ve no evidence but this stinks to me.
I don’t think a replay is possible and a little ambivalent to it myself. I can see why and I can see why not however, to go a little further on the floodgates being opened view of things, I actually think a replay won’t result in that because there will now be a precedent set and one that will result in accountability which will further result in officials becoming more aware and diligent in how they do things. If they know an incompetent fuck up is going to result in consequences then they’ll be less likely to commit an incompetent fuck up. At this point, there is fuck all consequences bar missing a few weeks which is inconsequential. Managers and players face hundreds of thousands in fines for daring to stick their head above the parapet. Fine these cunts as well or suspend them, fire them etc, like any normal institution that views accountability as a must in their organisation.
