The issue is you have determined, very correctly, that the refs are cunts. What you are now doing though is the equivalent of this meme
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Hardly fair?
Your attempts at rationalising the irrational could have the same effect?
Rationalizing the irrationalâŚIâm telling him that he is mischaracaterizing the nature of the communication, seeming as he doesnt understand what he is hearing. He is using misunderstanding to criticize people he has already committed to criticizing. Yes, they deserve criticism, but as I always find myself sayingâŚwe have enough real shit to get frustrated about we dont need to make up stuff to be angry about.
Ha ha. The age old question. Is he conducting himself like that because he is a cunt? Or is he a cunt because he conducts himself like that?
I think what we are dealing with (Iâm just using John Brooks as an example) is a collapse in refereeing standard. Itâs never been as bad as this. Everybody absolutely hates them.
There are plenty of places to find supplementary blame. The tribalism of fans doesnât help. Nor does the media, who seem intent to drive engagement by making every bad decision into a massive story.
But at the centre of this is a refereeing body (PGMOL) that simply doesnât take their job seriously enough. There is a lack of professionalism that runs through that organisation, combined with opaqueness, cronyism, and xenophobia.
I canât even be arsed with them getting decisions wrong. They are human beings and thatâs baked in. I really donât mind a referee making a mistake.
But when you see them strutting around the pitch, pumped up about making big calls, dismissing players like they are trying wave away a fly, elbowing players in the face (why did we forget about that?), brandishing cards like Gandalf trying to hold back the Balrog, refusing to explain themselves, having the same set of old boys club pricks covering their arses on VAR, generally trying to insert themselves into the narrative of a football game, issuing âsorry not sorryâ apologies to clubs every single week, and - worst of all - taking themselves off for cushy little midweek jollies in the UAE paid for by the owners of a team in this division, then I find it hard not to reach the conclusion that this is a set of lads who are not serious about what they are paid to do.
Everyone points to Rugby as the exemplar, noting how nice it is that the players respect the referees. They all get it wrong. The players respecting the refs is only half the story. The reds also respect the players. They explain themselves, they stay in control, they donât treat players like children, and the are accountable.
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Yes. Because everyone has concluded they are cunts, shit cunts, and then proceeds to lose their shit over stuff they have made up and refuse to hear that maybe, in this instance, they are letting their emotions get away from them.
There is a refereeing crisis in this country. But, 1) our problems are not really worse than anyone elseâs, its just convenient for us to tell ourselves its that the PGMOL hate us and Spanish refs do it much better without. And 2) we as fans contribute to this by ensuring there is very little difference in the discourse between an incident like the royally fucked up Diaz disallowed goal and the Shaw âhandballâ.
My high level take is the rules in their application have become way too complex and too distant from the first principles of what they exist to do in the first place. The result is there is a rube goldberg like contraption that has to be constructed everytime a ref has to make a decision on an offside, or a handball or a bad tackle. They give incoherent explanations for why they gave what they did, and wild inconsistencies in outcomes are observed as a result. They are not looking at a tackle to say âwas that dangerous? did he need to do that to win the ball?â Instead they are working through a series of considerations, many of which have branching logic, very little of which is well aligned with the median fanâs view of the incident. Like I said of the odegaard incident, no fan in the planet will think it is reasonable for a defender to be able to take the ball off an attacker by slapping it away from them with their hand, regardless of how accidental the slap is. Yet the rules have become so convoluted that they were always going to be able to come up with an explanation to not give it if they didnt want to. And Webb was left no firm basis on which he could communicate why it was or was not a handball other than giving an opinion based on his gut and what âfans expectâ.
The rules need a complete root and branch overhaul to simplify them and realign them with what they exist to do in the first place. But fans have their role in this toxicity as well
Now I see what my problem is with blatantly incompetent refereeing decisions that went against us this season.
I made them up 
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How do fans have a role in this âtoxicityââŚ
The refs have a job. They do it honest and fair, without the theatrics and arrogance then no one complains. Its really that simple.
Supporters invest energy, emotion, money and time into their teams. All a supporter wants is their team operating on a level playing pitch.
And you have to admit that Liverpool really are notâŚthat leads to complaints on forums, at matches, in pubs. Thats what fans do.
If its all fair, then no one argues.
Regarding the arrogance and pomposity issue. Its creeping inâŚBrooks, Tierney and a few more. Sneery fuckers taking delight in stitching it into the likes of VVD. Thats the problem.
Not the supporters.
From what I see, the standard of refereeing and the decisions they make in the Premier league is poor.
But on the otherside that behaviour of players is a massive contributing factor, as they dive, roll around as if they have been shot, appeal for everything even and on the whole behave intolerably.
If you, as a ref, are going out to face that, I would imagine it becomes a war, a siege mentality. Even when they get a decision right and its blatant they still have the players in their face pleading innocence and at other times teams surrounding them, trying to bully them into a decision.
Also respect is a two way street, how can, you as a ref respect someone like Fernandez, when you know he will dive, feign injury and cheat his way to get a result.
I say all this also thinking that there are several refs that have a bias attitude against us and I am at loss why because we are probably the side which shows the most respect in our attitude towards refs on the pitch.
I agree with most of this. But the refs pussyfooting around cheats and divers doesnât help.
If Fernandez knows its a yellow for mouthing or diving then he behaves. Seriously knows.
But the same must hold for Grealish and Saka.
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I withdraw all I said I just canât have us agreeing 
Ah well, its a dirty feeling for me too!
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Amateurish is right. Here with VAR you have an opportunity to review and be comfortable with the decision. Heâs taken it on the fly and said screw everyone else.
Use the tools available to you.
It just reinforces my thinking of how poor they are before we even start talking about other stuff.
Yes please to Captain only one allowed to talk to ref.
Do this combined with giving the Captain the right to calmly and professionally request a limited number of VAR interventions on decisions they or their team would like reviewed.
Gets rid of the âclear and obviousâ nonsense and the ref crowding/ card waving in one go 
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I am increasingly coming around to this being if not the best way to use it, the best way to address the biggest complaints people have with it. Clear and obvious makes a lot of sense on paper but their application of it has been terrible and their communication of what it means even worse. We are then left with more or less ongoing criticism of why one issue was reviewed and one not and perceived inconsistencies that has come to drown out the actual football.
Make the captains or manager request the review and you simultaneously solve multiple issues
- necessarily limits the amount of interventions, allowing the game to flow a bit more
- provides absolute clarity and transparency on why an issue was reviewed, what was being reviewed and over what claim
- eliminates the clear and obvious threshold and concerns over someone else refereeing the game. VAR just loads up the sequence the team asked to be checked and the ref goes and takes another look
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It really does make more and more sense the more you think about it.
Also been shown to work very well in other sports.
Personally it would make me feel so much better about the game in so many ways if they implemented something along those lines.
Imagine if referees conspire to somehow make more mistakes than the allotted number of reviews.
Then what?
If itâs like tennis, a valid challenge doesnât reduce the number of available challenges.
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In an ideal world, that could work.
But imagine VAR decisions like the Ădegaard handballâŚ
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In tennis itâs a very binary call: the ball is in or out. Thereâs little room for shenanigans and personal interpretation.
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So this the scenario.
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a referee makes an onfield call.
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The captain calls for a VAR intervention.
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VAR looks at the footage and concludes, yes, the ref got it wrong.
Sounds like a fairy tale to me. Refs have already said publicly that they donât like to drop their mates in it. I think the chances of a VAR overruling a ref following a challenge from a player are virtually nil.
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