I can totally accept refs getting it wrong at the speed of the Premier League the diving antics of players.
However, it is the performance of those on VAR that is the issue for me, blatant fouls in the penalty area are being completely ignored, because of the clear and obvious error explanation, when it should be about getting decisions right.
That Newcastle penalty is a textbook example of how the complexity in the rules now creates dumb situations.
Schar was in an offside position when he was being pulled. VAR gave a penalty for the pull because although he was in an offside position he hadnt committed a foul yet as he had d not yet become active by trying to play the ball. The contradiction is that holding in the box is only supposed to be given (even more so in the case of a VAR overturn) if the holding prevents him from playing the ball. So for the pull to be a foul the attacker has to by definition be considered active which would make him offside and negate the foul.
If toast always falls butter side down, and cats always land on their feet; then if you tie a piece of toast to the back of a cat you will create a perpetual motion machine.
Same as Mo being offside because he was pushed by an opposition player, so common sense says that it should be a penalty rather than an offside call as he was pushed by an opposition player.
Unfortunately the ones applying the rules aint got a clue and the application of the rules is/are suspect
Might be in trouble.
Glad he called it though.
In the emotion of the win we have a player on crutches and Caicedo without sanction.
And a disallowed goal that beggers belief
Did I see it well, Klopp completely blanked Kavanagh when he went to shake hands with the referees? Whenever you think that this lot canāt stoop any lower, they find ways to piss you off even more. Maybe, just maybe I could understand the offside decision (even if itās a wrong one) but not even calling a foul on a tackle that quite possibly ended Gravenberchās season is beyond me.
It had to be said, heāll take the fine on the chin.
Remember when the Leeds player injured Harvey and the ref did not want to sent him off until he saw the ankle?
Guess Ryanās ankle was not broken enough today.
I thought he shook his hand
Iām sure there are so many things he wants to say about refereeing in England (PGMOL) but can not do that at the moment.
Guess heāll dedicate a whole chapter of his next biography on them.
Saying he wasnāt up to the level of the game is putting it mildly.
I do my best to avoid chatter where officials are concerned because the focus and attention should be on the team but Kavangh and VAR were a disgrace.
Chilwell and Caicedo shouldāve both been sent off for 2 bookable offences and Endo does absolutely fuck all when Virg scores his first.
There was 1 instance which riled up me over the wall, someone put Joe over on his head then Ibou goes somewhat unorthodoxly into a challenge but from recollection gets the ball and he blows for a foul and books him.
And I for one look forward to reading it, I canāt wait until he can REALLY say what he thinks.
And we complain about lenient refereesā¦.
Different time
No one really complains about lenient referees. Unless thats how you spell biasedā¦?!
Didnāt someone get a yellow for showing cowardice in the face of the enemy?
Took this from the Utd thread after they had a goal awarded in very similar circumstances to the one we had disallowed on Sunday. The differenceā¦the blocked forest player was not thought to have been able to get back into a position where heād have been able to meaningfully challenge Casimiro or the ballā¦the so called ādropping zoneāā¦ignoring that Colwill regardless of whether he might have been able to was making no real attempt to
I think this is an example of how the attempts this year to bring extra transparency to the decision making has backfired. Ok, we can read the rules and guidance for how the refs are to apply the rule, but when we see it applied to two different but similar scenarios you can not make anyone make sense of the difference in outcome. Too often it just seems like vague hand waving. Itās just gut decision making but given an unearned varnish from pointing to a set of hard and fast criteria they have to followā¦except when they apply those hard and fast criteria to a situation that the game generally doesnāt think warrants it.
Years ago I worked on a study using imaging techniques to quantify muscle size. It was a fairly novel approach back then as even though the images themselves were easy to get, it was really hard to standardize everything so you can have faith in the reliability of your measurementā¦hard to standardize the image capture itself and also hard to standardize how the standard software quantified the image (think manually drawing the lines on the VAR offsides, but WAY more lines). We were given protocols to follow for both but very early on it was apparent that they were not possible to follow in a consistent way. This is what watching refs and their spokespeople explain the decision making is increasingly looking like to me.
āoh, there was a bend in the leg there from that challengeā¦it was not malicious, but that has to be off right? No? Really? Because of theā¦angle of the boot? How is the angle of that boot different than that one that got a red? Oh, because of the distance he came from? Thatās a thing? Ok, but on that red here looks like a similar bend/angle/distance combo to this advantage call? Oh, he was coming out of a different challenge before making this foul that will keep our player out for a month or so? Makes total sense. I can see why our maimed played got no protection at all given the player who did it was coming out of a different challenge. Yep, you totally cannot injure a player with a bad challenge in that circumstance. Makes perfect sense now.ā
Ultimately- despite the āguidanceā provided- these decisions are still subjective. And any impartial assessment of the outcomes will show that certain teams are treated differently from others.
Subjectivity is fine. There are lots of industries where decision making is made on qualitive assessments and you still find that well trained assessors can still have considerable overlap in the outcomes they come to, and just as importantly, an ability to explain their judgement that makes sense of both the overlap and the disagreements. Football has neither.