@Noo_Noo I agree with @Flobs - which is a rarity . I assume - admittedly uneducated in this field - that an explosion above deck would cause a certain amount of upward force/ripple effect but in my opinion the videos I have seen suggests a charge from underneath. Reservations for this suggestion (and you are probably more able to answer this) but would the force of a boat attack, unless driven directly into a support be lessened by the buoyancy of the water?
Additionally, regarding the train and I would really appreciate peoples thoughts on this. All the photos show the train carriages as being adjacent to the blast. This, to me suggests that there was no momentum in this train. If it was moving then surely it would either derail or at the very least be past the point of impact.
It is a bridge with no junctions so there is no reason for it to stop. Did it slam on its breaks and slide almost perfectly adjacent to the explosion and oh, it was carrying fuel.
I am surprised no one has questioned this. Although, it is more than likely Iv missed something.
Almost everyone now seem to be in agreement that it was the truck and that the explosives were laced with something akin to thermite .
I have posted several expert analysis above. I note that like the Norwegian expert I posted days ago said, the explosive charge is too big for SOF placed explosives, likewise Finish EOD expert. There is then really only truck/trailer left, since no missile could do that damage.
and more:
And posting this again for the third time, just because people seem to not reading the expert analysis i posted above judging by the meta discussion recently.
Just to clarify, are you saying France has contributed 25% of its mobile artillery to Ukraine or 25% of its Caesars?
Did you read my link from the BBC which actually quoted a French Defence analyst? and also stated that recent āon the ground analysisā suggests the French share of Arms is less than 2%. But, maybe the Oryx is a more reputable source and fair enough.
I am definitely not questioning Franceās reaction to the conflict because I have an agenda. I am questioning them because as a super power and one of the two controlling powers in the EU, their response has been poor. I would expect a country with so much soft power, predominantly in the EU block but also internationally, to be leading the way, setting an example and encouraging other countries to follow their example.
In the end we all want the same outcome. If France or any other country lead the way in ending this conflict I would be full admiration and appreciation of their interaction.
Ceasars are their most modern state of the art artillery and there is a limit as to how many you can send at once if crew are to be trained. They have given 25 % of their most state of the art artillery, which honestly means their land forces have taken a bigger hit than any other country sending arms to Ukraine.
What they havenāt done and what is very fair to criticise is their meagre financial support for Ukaine, which is why french professors are concerned and why they get flak. But their actual military support is , while moderate in quantity, actually the highest in quality of everyone sending arms to Ukraine, barring crucial HIMARS. But no artillery system Ukraine has recived is as high tech as Ceasar, I note. Even the excellent German panzerhaubitze 2000 is slightly inferior.
But France should do more economically and could send other stuff than just arty and air defence (which are crucial to be fair).
Firstly, I really appreciate you and others taking the time to keep us updated/informed. So thank you.
I still have reservations about the analysis provided and I admit I am no expert.
In the daylight reconstruction work photographs (shown in the link you provided) the scorch marks are not that distinctive. Surely as the fire happened above deck it was more likely to have been blackened.
Regarding the coloured sections, there is damage to the purple section, if the Van exploded further up, towards the Orange section has the purple section collapsed also? This is also where the road surface is damaged.
Regarding the wind creating the wave ripple, surely that would have been consistent across more than just one support?
I am actually open to the idea of there being two separate detonations.
Additionally, if the van was trying to catch the train which was travelling fast, how has the train come to an immediate stop?
I also forgot to note that France has started War production of Ceasars now (i.e. will produce more of them a year than usual). Itās worth noting.
And just ask Flobs, I donāt defend either France or Germany if there is nothing to it. Most of my posts concerning those in this thread has been criticism, not praise. But one should aim to be objective.
Iām on my way to bed now. In one of those analysis you can see pieces of the truck/trailer blown up and there isnāt very much else it could have been, given we are talking about maybe 2000 kg of explosives. Too much for missiles, too much for droned boat and too much for SOF to place under a bridge.
But at this point I think you either have to wait for some other anaylis you can belive in, might take a while or continue speculating. I no longer see it as important and will go with the one making the most sense according to experts.
Have a good night !
I am not for one moment suggesting that you are defending any country and I accept that your knowledge is way above mine in this arena. Regarding the link you posted I quote this.
āUntil July 2022 France was one of the few European countries not to have delivered or pledged armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs) to Ukraine. On the 27th of June, Franceās defence minister SĆ©bastien Lecornu finally announced that France will supply Ukraine with large numbers of VAB armoured personnelā
So until July, France was one of the few European countries to not have even pledged AFVās. And, by using the word finally, in regards to the supply of VABās it implies that France were very slow in committing this donation. This is 4 months into the conflict, and we do not know if they have been delivered or numbers.
āUnlike most European nations, France still maintains sizeable stocks of artillery currently placed in reserve. This includes dozens of 155mm TRF1 towed howitzers and comparable numbers of 155mm AMX-30 AuF1 SPGs. However, Franceās decision to provide Ukraine with active-service Caesar SPGs could indicate that it deems these systems unsuitable for use in Ukraineā
So according to the report France has sizeable stocks of Artillery placed in reserve. Surely, this contradicts the notion that they are over stretched with their commitment to the Sahal? And by having a large volume of stock, shouldnāt they be contributing more. Agreed?
Also, the report suggests that Frances decision to donate the 18 SPGs is because they are deemed unsuitable for use in Ukraine!!! If so what is the point of delivering them?
N.b. I accept that the last statement could have been lost in translation.
I still stand by my opinion that France and Germany have shyed from their responsibilies.
Sleep well .
As I have said, I appreciate your knowledge and input to this thread. I have mentioned this before.
You are right in that it may take me a while for someone to provide analysis I can believe in. Fortunately for you, you found someone to believe in quicker than me.
However, it still doesnāt mean that it is correct. How many times have āexpertsā been wrong. Is Oliver Alexander an expert or a journalist? I see no quotes or sources in his post. So without being rude, maybe you should ask Oliver Alexander to stop being speculative, because it appears his view is as just as speculative as mine .
Before the CCTV video I was thinking it must have been explosives set from below, but the video shows a lot of the blast force above the deck. I like the suggestion that they were following the train as I donāt think anyone has explained how that fit into it.
To tell the truth I had until this moment believed the train was travelling in the opposite direction and I donāt know why I naturally thought thatā¦in the burning tank cars video from right to left, when he is saying it was travelling left to right in the same direction as that outside vehicle traffic lane.
I hope you were not sober when you wrote that. To compare your own speculation to the EOD, VBIED experts and analysts i have posted without bothering to read their analysis (you cant possibly have) is both extremely stupid, lazy, but most of all exceptionally disrespectful.
You show such a profound lack of respect, unwillingness to study source material and waste my time with insults.
I cross reference, provide more than 5 experts and this fucked up shit is what I get. You havenāt provided even informed speculation yourself and you dare insult my ability to filter sources without even bothering to take a few minutes to check them and read about them ? Comparing yourself with teachers at war schools , EOD experts and more ? Special.
I did not post Oliverās analysis in a vacum and even if you disregard that analyst, it was part of a series of threads by experts on EODās, VBIED and you know, warfare.
Musk seemed to confirm the correlation (the fuck off tweet in response to his Pro-Russia peace plan) in a tweet response but I dont have time to search for it right now (read it over a coffe cup this morning).
In my opinion he was likely already looking for an excuse to stop the starlink aid for some time now though.
Edit: here it is
But they sent a request to the pentagon for payment months ago, so the correlation isnt real in reality but a nice excuse.
Some people simply have a much stronger prior that canāt be budged by evidence. It canāt be helpedā¦
Pathetic man-child.
Interesting read here as well.
Heās been taking enormous credit for Starlink in Ukraine but the cunt has been reaping such for it far more than heās sowed.
Probably more suited for the Billionaire Baloney thread, but that sums up his entire life.
The lack of scorching or black marks underneath on the adjacent deck is telling I think. Interesting point on the influence on water and the blast force. That raises more questions and Iāll have to think about it. Equal and opposite reactions etc.
I donāt think the train was moving either and very little force exerted on it but it got absolutely plastered with something.
To my mind, the explosive used was pretty special in some way. It appears as if it was specifically intended to really damage the bridge in a very localised way.
What has Musk actually said? I know these satellites naturally circumnavigate the globe, but perhaps the extra cost talked about is redirecting and focusing flight paths of the satellites over Ukraine given it probably wasnāt a focal market for Starlink prior to the war? Iām spitballing that the costs are more associated at the transmitter end rather than the receiver end.