The Unreliable Rumours Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Rumour Mill
5913

It’s possible, like many scenarios, but he never had a long period playing as a proper midfielder. Whether that’s where he sees himself long term (and yes I’ve heard of his wish to maybe evolve in that more offensive LCM role, the one Lampard played in the past), that’s another story. He’s yet to get there and become that. I wouldn’t think it would be easy, no. I’ve seen him in a few games as part of the midfield 3 (so, as one of the #8’s), both for Chelsea and England and it didn’t look good. And not really providing what we need, even though he is someone who is willing to put in the hard work.

The wish of everyone is for new players to hit the ground running of course. Sometimes it takes time, like Fabinho needed it (even as a #6 at Monaco coming here to play as a #6, Klopp said Fabinho first had to teach that the role here is totally different how we want our #6 to play). Others don’t need time and are able to step in and perform immediately.

I have not much against Mount, I think he does a few things to a good level. But I don’t think he’s the type we need. I would rather buy two midfielders who are proper midfielders. And rather than going for Mount, we already have some players below his level in terms of quality, but stylistically not far from what the idea would be to do with him. The likes of Jones and Elliott.

And then especially as it seems like we like what Gakpo is showing centrally as the false #9. Next season we could have 2-3 different players rotating up top central, depending what we want. And as long as Salah is here for a little while and a few other reasons, I don’t see us really flipping to 4-2-3-1 and playing with that single #10, which is at the moment probably Mount’s best position.

5914

I’m all open for that.

Our net spend did change a bit from time to time, even if we know already more or less how we operate in a ‘normal’ summer. Let’s see if they can back us once without necessarily selling a few big ones like Coutinho in 2018.

But until I see it, I realistically doubt it will happen. The media say Klopp will be backed and there’s no need to say it like that, of course he will be backed. More than usually? Maybe. So much more to have a massive net spend to complete the mentioned deals? Nah, I don’t think so.

But I’m fine if that’s the case, I’m aware that us improving next season will also have to do what we do with most of the players who will remain here. Pre-season, tactics, etc. Transfer activities this summer will also be important, but not the only thing.

1 Like
5915

Then he’s in dreamworld. He’s stank the place out for bith England and Chelsea when playing as an 8. He’s a serviceable 10 but he’s not once in his career proven himself capable of playing well as an 8.

Maybe Klopp can transform him and we buy him banking on the idea that he can. I don’t like it though. I want a big, powerful midfield presence not another converted 10.

Give Carvalho another season he’ll be a better player than Mount.

3 Likes
5916

Never? He’s never once played well in a midfield three in his whole career? Not even in the Bournemouth game recently where he played as an 8, scored to mark his 150th appearance and won man of the match to end their winless run.

Look at our options this season and tell me who he isn’t getting a game ahead of? Thiago if and when he’s fit, fine. Every other one of them including the two leaving he’d probably start ahead of.

In what position and based on what? He’s played 69 minutes since Christmas with 66 of them coming when we put out a B team in the cup.

5917

I’ll leave for anyone that wants a read. A little dated but a very interesting statistical comp in there.

5918

Brewster was going to be our Mbappe.

Curtis was going to be better than Foden and Maddison.

Elliott is ballon D‘Or material.

Carvalho will be better than Mount.

Sometimes it’s better to take of those red tinted glasses.

5919

You’ve never watched any of those players play a game that wasn’t in a Liverpool shirt.

I’ve never claimed Brewster was even a PL standard player, never mind the next Mbappe.

At Jones’s age Maddison was playing for Norwich in the Championship. Curtis Jones still has a massive amount of potential and could absolutely be better than James Maddison.

I’ve never claimed or heard anyone claim that Elliott would win a ballon d’Or. He did, however, have a very good season at Blackburn before he broke his leg (or is playing well in the Chamoionship only something good when Maddison and Mount do it?) - going out to that level of football and being one of their best players aged 17 - and is currently leading us in appearances this season.

Carvalho is one of the most electric young players in recent years. He was the best player in the Championship last season, with the exception of his teammate Mitrovic, far surpassing the achievements of Elliott, Mount or Maddison at that level. True, he hasn’t had a great first season here but he’s a very young player who has still had moments that show his potential.

It may get you a few cheap likes to shit on our players but comparing someone saying Brewster is better than Mbappe to saying Carvalho will be a better player than Mount is frankly ludicrous. I know you’ve got a massive hard on for Mount and I love that for you but you’re honestly shocked at the idea that Carvalho can be better than a squad player at a team below us in the league?

The evidence for Mount being a great signing is the season he played the entire campaign as a 10. He’s been tried at the 8 slot and it has not worked to date. Maybe Klopp feels he can develop something in him that Chelsea’s managers have failed to but honestly to me this would be a concerning signing. We don’t use players in the position he plays well, and even when he does well in that role he is often just doing what Gakpo does, so where does he fit?

@rab great he had one good game once against relegation fodder. That must invalidate all the other games he’s played where he has been crap. Philipp Degen once won man of the match against Tottenham in a 2-0 win - one swallow does not a summer make. He’s a perfectly fine 10, not a special 10, but fine. As an 8 he’s way below the standards we should be aiming for.

And Carvalho will be a better AM than Mount, I wouldn’t compare them as CMs since neither of them can play there.

11 Likes
5920

Great post, I’d add Brewster had huge potential before he got his injury.

1 Like
5921

For a little over 2 full seasons, first under Tuchel and then under Potter, Chelsea have mostly played 3CBs, a formation that eliminates the role in a 3 man midfield Mount is being talked about for. You have to go back to 19-20, Lampard’s first season in charge, to see Chelsea regularly setting in a way where that role existed, and that was a season where Mount excelled in the role and played it pretty much every game (on a side that had Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic for him to compete with). He’s only really struggled for an identity and position once Frank lost his way trying to fit together a lot of new pieces he didnt know how to use, and with newer managers who didnt play in the shape that incorporates his preferred role.

I will buy arguments that you should be weary of player whose contribution falls a long way with a shift in the shape of the team. I will buy arguments that you should be weary of a player you have to go back 3 years to find a run of form to support the argument he could play the role here, especially for someone only 24. But some of this criticism is a bit lacking in that context.

1 Like
5922

It invalidates the claim he has not once in his career proved he can play as an 8.

He’s 24, he’s played nearly 200 games for one of the top teams in Europe, been their player of the season twice and had 36 caps for England. He’s versatile, durable and a hell of a lot better than what we have at the moment.

You can say he can’t play as an 8 but clearly he can. You can say he plays more as a 10 but that was true of Wijnaldum before he got here. It’s not the role he’s played for someone else that matters but the role he might be able to play for us. Klopp has had success with doing this on multiple occasions.

I say again, who from our existing options would be ahead of him?

3 Likes
5923

I’m sorry but thats not true. In 19/20 he played as one of two 10s in a 352 ans then as the 10 in a 4231. He was not playing as an 8 in a 433.

1 Like
5924

[quote="rab, post:5922, topic:2623,

You can say he can’t play as an 8 but clearly he can. You can say he plays more as a 10 but that was true of Wijnaldum before he got here.
[/quote]

This seems to be a sticking point. I’m not convinced by a one off game against Bournemouth being enough to rebuold our midfield around a squad player from a team lower in the league than us, you apparently are. All good but neither of us are changing our mind on that.

As for who he is better than in our midfield currently - I think that misses the point. What are we aiming to do - Win the league? Do you really think he’s good enough to help us do that? I don’t, not as a regular starter.

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5925

Wijnaldum played a ton of games for Feyenoord and PSV as an 8 before he went to Newcastle.

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5926

I watched Mount a few times for Derby when I was tuning in to see our next superstar Harry Wilson. Mount was a different gravy to anyone else on the pitch. One of the best young players I’ve seen.

He went on to win player of the year for Chelsea 2 years in a row, including assisting the only goal in CL final.

Ridiculous that people writing him off. I’d be delighted if we signed him and intrigued to see his development under Klopp

4 Likes
5927

The Bournemouth game was an example.

He’s better than what we have and what we have was chasing a quadruple this time last year.

He isn’t a squad player. He’s played more league minutes this season than any other Chelsea midfielder. He’s also played more league minutes than any of our midfielders bar Fabinho.

And god forbid we buy players from teams below us in the league. Aside from van Dijk, Robertson, Jota, Mane, Wijnaldum when has that ever worked recently?

As for not being good enough to help us win stuff he seemed to do an alright job helping Chelsea win a champions league. Played nearly every minute of the quarters, semis and final. So yeah, I don’t think that’ll be an issue.

I’m not even advocating that’s the route we should go down, I just find the dismissive attitudes towards him a bit baffling. So out of interest, aside from Bellingham, who would you like to see us sign for the midfield?

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5928

Going make a point on Elliott though I would temper what he is to become same goes with Carvalho they are being written off at the age of 19/20.

I think that’s rather dumb, regardless.

3 Likes
5929

Players who are different to what we already have. Powerful players who can cover lots of ground, win tackles, win headers and give it over to our attackers and wing backs to provide the quality.

What I don’t want is yet another not-quite-a-forward, not-quite-a-midfielder when we don’t even know how to use the ones we have now.

6 Likes
5930

All of these were the best players on their team.

1 Like
5931

Maybe I have selective memory, but Klopp just doesn’t buy players that have hit a substantial run of bad form and are still in the rut. And it makes sense to swerve such players. Transferring in a player carries enough risks in terms of how they adapt to the team and the environment. We are absolutely not a team where we want the added risk of them not getting their head right, and the staff having to put in work to get their head right (we have enough existing players that we need to deal with in this area!).

I honestly cannot think of too many examples of a player Klopp and his team have brought in that weren’t at the top of their game. Arthur? That was a last minute desperation (loan) signing and even when uninjured he didn’t set the world on fire. That’s the only example I can think of. I’m not following what Mount has been up to. Has Mount turned his form around? If not, then IMO it seems unlikely we would be after him.

5932

Such as…?