We pressed really well under Rodgers when playing 442 diamond. The 5-1 against Arsenal was a pressing masterclass.
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And still ended up conceding 50 goals in the leagueâŚ
That wasnât a well balanced side, too wild.
Be the first time Fichajes got anything right. Suppose if you throw enough shit some of it will stick.
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We had Suarez then though, and Bobby
Very few people ask themselves whatâs the defending like in a diamond shape.
Let alone pressing, because from not a big sample of teams plaiyng the diamond shape, they werenât all pressing sides.
This was my general view on the diamond issue a few weeks back:
It depends very much on the type of players you have in those positions. Not every diamond is the same.
In the pressing phase, it would be less of a problem than when you have to drop deeper (mostly to defend in a flatter 4-4-2, or some sort of a 4-3-3). Even if it is a difference whether the tip of the diamond is a Wirtz (current version of Wirtz) type of player or a Firmino type of player. There could be more differences.
Different versions of a diamond structure (not very often in football anyway) had different players dropping; Zidane for example could drop deeper from the single #10 role alongside the single #6. But that was also at a time when teams werenât as compact and the game was more individualistic. The Real sides he took part in arenât the best example tactical/balance wise. Plus, itâs bloody Zidane. In Milanâs diamond, obviously Kaka (a totally different player to the ones mentioned so far) wouldnât drop alongside Pirlo, so thatâs a big difference. Already by Athens, they were back to a more compact 4-4-2 (Gattuso and Seedorf narrowly on the sides, Kaka as a second striker). A bit like the Atletico 4-4-2âs with proper midfielders on narrow sides and a difference maker in Griezmann between the lines.
One of the two strikers (mostly the one who is more mobile) could drop to one of the sides to defend, pushing one of the #8âs more alongside the #6 to create a double-pivot shape.
I wouldnât really see Wirtz (especially current Wirtz) dropping from the single #10 role close to our #6. So you would probably have to âhideâ (like we already try to cheat the game with the way we use Salah) him narrowly from one of the sides.
Mourinho attempted a diamond shape near the end of his first era at Chelsea, thatâs the time when he tried to bring the best out of a deep controller (Makelele or Mikel), a physical box-to-box beast (Essien), a goalscoring #8 in Lampard and Ballack at #10. It wasnât great and it didnât last long.
In our 13/14 season, during the season (and obviously Suarez and Sturridge forcing us to find a way to have them together up top, even if we had the odd game when one of them defended the side more, like I said above), we evolved into a diamond shape. Also didnât last long.
What Klopp was talking about in the #10 role is that in his football, the single #10 role is defensively the hardest one. When he came, he immediately pushed Coutinho to the left half space and in the #10 role we initially had Lallana, but then is slowly became Bobbyâs position (which then morphed into our 4-3-3 with a false #9, not too dissimilar to a diamond shape, but still different).
Itâs connected to his phrase that good counter-pressing overall beats a single #10 playmaker.
The diamond shape is rare enough in the game and what I found from my memory is that even when it worked, it didnât last very long.
For me, changing to a diamond with so many players who didnât have a good pre-season, when the general understanding between them isnât great, is more dangerous than potentially good.
I would rather stick to our little shape differences of a principal formation (whether itâs a 2-1 or 1-2 midfield, whether we build with 3 at the back or with our CBâs, etc.) and pick individuals on merit, not just stick the best reputation (or better to say potential?) players in a diamond shape and what, force it until it works (and if it works)?
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It was a weird team where if you went from attack towards the back, it was less good. Not only how we functioned, but by individual quality. You could say Mignolet was a better GK than Flanno was a defender. But dear me, that side was literally a crazy combination of quality up top and then it was like we had another, isolated, lower quality, poorly protected defence.
Not sure if this should go in the Twitter thread or here in the unreliable one?
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Good but imo add 2 CHs (Guehi an another?) we have a very brittle back 4 and had we started on that area before splashing on forwards we would not be struggling like this at the moment. In the meantime Slot will have to start throwing tea cups in the dressing room.
Yeah it would be madness imo if we spend 70m on Semenyo this window without doing something about CB (and possibly RB if Bradley and Frimpongâs injury niggles persist)
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Going have to start selling some RBs if we keep buying them.
At this point Iâd give Ramsey a chance heâs not going pull up roses however it allows Dom to be more impactful and frankly heâs wasting our one bright spark by playing RB.
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Think weâll sign both Guehi and Semenyo in Jan for ÂŁ90-100m.
Thereâs no way weâre putting up with Konate and Gakpo all season.
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Itâs not like itâs too crowded at RB. We have 2 main RBâs, who are still trying to prove themselves in their own way (Bradley with his injuries and consistency and Frimpong whether heâs even a good fit to be a RB in a back 4) and a returner like Ramsay, whoâs entering the final year of his deal.
Not sure whether he will be able to do enough to merit a new contract.
Weâre past the sell to buy era, even if it will be really interesting if we make a total mess of this season and fail to qualify for the CL or Europe altogether. It would be incredibly disappointing.
But our squad size is fine, in the first 22 players on paper we entered the season with the likes of Leoni and Ngumoha in it. Nyoni is basically our 23rd player or someone whoâs regularly in matchday squads.
Slot will definitely have to prove he can use the squad better, although this season itâs more the lack of finding the winning team thatâs the issue.
Having more injuries than last season is not helpful either.
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Just want to say on centre back, had our plans worked out, weâd have Guehi and Leoni playing and available right now. Guehi fell through at the last second and Leoni, very unluckily, got injured for the season.
We talk about cb as though the club didnât recruit and/or try to recruit.
Donât get me wrong, I think it still needs to be addressed, and I think 2 cbâs will come in over the next two windows. Guehi and Schlotterbeck would be my guess.
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Oh whatever the reasons of why we left it late were (and I am still not convinced by the Palace innocence on this and I do think any pieces about Guehi being upset about us are coming from them) we did have it clear who we wanted. I do think we buy a CB in January, whether itâs Guehi or someone else. Of the 2-3 names always mentioned I think all are possible in January
As for right back, I just donât see the point in overloading on 3 RBâs technically 4. Just in case one or two are injured. Unless Frimpong is fully converted to an attacker. Slot needs to learn that he can use more than just his favourites otherwise it starts to look like Rodgers just without the blaming of others. One thing different at the moment is he is blaming himself.
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Iâm not sure he has enough of his favourites right now, heâs searching and his job might be on the line soon, if things donât improve quickly.
I donât expect us to go for a RB, but if we judge we need one in the next few windows, then having Bradley, Frimpong and Ramsay under contracts wonât (and shouldnât) block us from doing it.
I expect us to go for some versatile defenders very soon. Arsenal have done admirably well in that aspect, building their defence and their defensive work overall.
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We didnât have Bobby - he arrived in summer 2015 and Rodgers was sacked in October. Incidentally, he didnât have clue what to do with Firmino.
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Yeah, that was pure comedy gold.
Rodgers in the summer of 2015 speaking how after a season of Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, an injury-hit Sturridge he wants us to revert to a high pressing side from the front⌠then our biggest move of the summer is Christian Benteke and sticks Bobby on the wing after we failed to bring Depay (if I remember well), probably thinking heâs a Neymar type. Though I must admit I also didnât know too much about Bobby when he arrived, but I know he was very much a central player at Hoffenheim, either second striker or striker.
Incredible.
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I agree we donât need a RB but we need a CH that will be able to double up as a RB like Hato who went to Arse.
Yeah, the fact that Gomez is the only defender who can play more than one position in our defence isnât great.
Especially since you have situations where Virgil is getting on, we have a very young CB in Leoni, we have questions in both full back positions.
We can laugh at Arsenal all we want for them buying defenders, but theyâve build probably the most balanced 8 defensive options in European football.
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Jorrel Hato is a LB/CB, and plays for Chelsea. You were close though!
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