UK Politics Thread (Part 1)

a simple like just not good enough for this GIF

your a genius.

gonna blatantly steal this.

1 Like

this x100.

same same but different over here. the only miniscule difference is i dont think ScoMo enjoys any of the good luck BoJo gets just for being a ‘lovable fopish rougue’ out of some Dickens Novel

i understand they have to have a position when asked on various subjects…but seriously, could the opposition of Oz and Vic score any more own goals.

not a conspiracy theorist, but im starting to think no opposition wants to win the next cycle when after all these lockdowns and handouts life might be getting a bit too hard to run this joint.

i dont mean that from a POV that it would be political poison, i mean, litterally, too much like hard work. say what you like about our state and federal leaders, but right now, they are running litterally 24/7 and facing the press most days.

While I dont want to single out the Tories on this they have certainly been the main beneficiaries of it in a political sense. Others have made wads of money. But this whole misinformation thing is a huge issue. It’s now directly responsible for the deaths of thousands across the world and lord knows how many others through increased poverty, climate change etc.

As a species we’re completely out of control. It’s like Lord of the Flies on a global scale.

How do we tackle it?

1 Like

I’m shaking a little from absolute rage I’m feeling reading this.

I’ve found Raoul to be pretty fair and balanced and he’s got huge expertise and experience so this is an interesting thread

3 Likes

There’s been something wrong with democracy since the Greeks came up with. Personally I like a benevolent dictatorship model and of course we joust for the throne.

As for vanilla, not a good analogy. Voting for Labour currently is not a vanilla vote (plain) it is a vote into the void, a vote for no icecream whatsoever as even if they did win (cold day in hell) there would be nothing on the menu as the waiters would be too busy arguing with the chefs in the kitchen.

I would imagine that being a member of the Labour party right now (and taking a keen interest in politics) would be pretty much like being a United fan. You know your manager is crap but who are you going to change him for?

Said it before, sack Abbott and Corbyn and put Andy B in charge. Then we might have a credible and votable opposition. Till then, Jonothan Pie has it nailed on.

1 Like

Surely this is a starting position from the EU and perhaps there’s a little more they can move on to smooth a few things out.

Fundamentally though I’m still struggling to get past two core issues.

a) Frost signed the previous agreement. Why did he do that?

b) At the end of the day if the UK wants to trade with the EU then we are going to have to abide by some of their rules. It’s pretty much as basic as that.

Ultimately the UK has to accept some difficulties in trading with EU countries in return for being outside of the other things that come with being a member.

It does read as though he’s coming from the perspective that both parties have to meet in the middle (e.g. tweet 14 in that thread). Doesn’t really make sense if one party is making rather ridiculous demands?

Furthermore, the second tweet for example does miss out context if it’s true that all non EU/EEA countries have had similar checks and therefore it could significantly undermine the EU’s negotiating position in future agreements with these other countries, it would therefore have been impossible from the EU’s perspective to have eliminated those checks from the outset, and that this is a massive concession. I may of course be wrong, but it reads that way to me.

Maybe it’s just my personal biases playing up, but I cannot see this as anything other than an attempt by the Tories to eliminate the political problem for them in NI rather than for practical reasons that actually matter to people in NI.

1 Like

Well, Vanilla was your analogy. You said you wouldn’t vote Labour because Starmer is vanilla, which is, to me anyway, staggering.

As for what it’s like being a Labour Party member, not quite United - they have a crap manager, but the structures of their club and the interests of the game are rigged in their favour. The press love them. They are treated favourably by the authorities. They’ll always do OK. I see United more like the Tories. They have an absolute clown in charge, but it doesn’t matter. They’ll always be OK.

On Labour, I have come to see the problem as being bigger that the party. Andy Burnham is great. Lovely feller, gets the communities he needs to reach out to, in touch with voters. Sharp as a tack. Let’s get him in.

The problem though, I think, is that it doesn’t matter who Labour get in. The game is now so rigged that there is nothing Labour can do to win it. They are playing Monopoly and at the start the Tories are the bank, already own half the board, and have written their own community chest and chance cards. Blaming them for not being able to prosper in that environment isn’t really reasonable.

This is why your vanilla comment was so illustrative - a lot of people think like this. It is really hard to look at this absolute clusterfuck of a government - possibly the worst in memory. To look at the damage they’ve done and the corruption they have brought with them. To look at this and think Labour would be worse? Really

I don’t want to excuse the failings of the Labour Party - they do need to grow up and sort themselves out - but for a country to look at Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer and think ‘we’ll go with the lying, philandering, corrupt, public school toff who wouldn’t piss on us if we were on fire’ suggests something has gone wrong with the country.

Labour’s big mistake is to keep engaging with this broken, rigged system as if they can win it.

4 Likes

As a matter of interest and this is possibly a hell of a can of worms, do you think there’s something wrong with me personally as I’d vote blue tomorrow if there were an election.

Listened to pretty much every PMQs in the last 20 years, all the key speeches at he conferences and take a “healthy” interest in politics in general.

They certainly can win, Blair showed that. He didn’t win by going further to the left though.

I would ask what is it that the Conservatives offer over everyone else despite having lied to us, robbed us, and are responsible for more than a few of us dying as well. They have also driven the UK economy off a cliff (we are currently in mid air) and are driving down services and provisions that a government should provide (health and education).

Why continue to vote for a government that has done all of that?

3 Likes

It’s the old analogy of which foot do you want to shoot yourself in. My core values are closer allied to the conservatives than labour. I’m happy to change for a good leader with good policies. Trouble is that politicians still haven’t grasped the concept of telling the public what they’ll actually do, cost it, explain how to pay for it then follow through.

As a small business owner, the recent lockdowns were horrific and their timings were almost rigged just to murder me personally. Trust me, nobody has more reason to hate this government than me.

Shows what I think of Labour.

1 Like

It’s typical Tory thinking to say, even in jest, that the lockdowns were planned to murder you personally, rather than accepting the need for everyone to sacrifice for the greater good.
That is exactly why I could never vote for the Conservatives. Britain needs a strong political party for everyone who believes in community and shared responsibility for society. This ‘me first’ attitude as gone too far.

3 Likes

The me first mentality is what drives society forwards. You can’t look after your mate if you’re starving. Put your own oxygen mask on first on a plane otherwise you might not be able to help others etc etc etc.

That was 25 years ago.

1 Like

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis

Not really. It’s what drives people like you forwards. There are plenty of people whose motivation is what makes the lives of others better, and there are plenty of people who don’t actually care whether it’s about them or others, they just want an answer to the question they have.

3 Likes

I’d love to meet anybody who’s driving force is making the lives of others better who doesn’t already have health, heat, shelter and food.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with you, but there are a lot of people like you - actively coming up with half-reasons not to vote Labour while the conservatives are repeatedly kicking you in the balls.

I think it’s a testament to how the Tories have stitched up the country that they can run the worst government in living memory, even cause tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, and be confident about winning the next election.

You mentioned that the pandemic fucked you, and I’m sure you’re aware that it was much worse and more impactful on you than it ever needed to be. The report this week confirmed that the Tories critically mismanaged the pandemic and because of this our lockdowns were far more damaging than they needed to be.

And then your reasons to avoid Labour seem so vague. You think Starmer is a bit crap. Is he? Worse than BoJo? You think Labour suffer from infighting? They surely do, but then the ERG wing of the Tory party has just pretty much destroyed the country, and have been waging a war for control of the party for a decade or more.

It’s interesting you bring up Blair. A lot has changed in the country in the 25ish years since Labour came to power. I do not think Blair would an election today and I think Keir Starmer would walk the 97 vote. The difference is that the country is profoundly different. The media is essentially a propaganda machine for the Conservative party. Social media is so corruptable it’s actively damaging - entrenching views and making far more of us tribalists.

You have previously described yourself as a floating voter. I think that’s nonsense. You’re a dyed in the wool Conservative, and if the current government failings, not to mention the fact that they nearly destroyed your business, aren’t going to change your mind about about voting for them, or at least give you doubts, you can’t claim to float.

I think the essential difference between being left wing and right wing is that the right believes that societies interests are best served by everyone following their own self interest, while the left believe society is best when we all look after each other. You are clearly right wing.

2 Likes